Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Does the Empty Weight of an aircraft include weight of fuel?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Does the Empty Weight of an aircraft include weight of fuel?

    does the empty weight of an aircraft include the weight of the fuel for the flight.

    for example on FS2004 it states that the empty weight for the Boeing 737-400 is 34500kg, the fuel capacity in litres is 20112 / 0.8 = 25140kg

    34500-25140 = 9360kg for the actual aircraft w/o fuel.

    I edge toward believing the weight of fuel is not included in E/W.

    the payload also has to be calculated before calculating exact fuel required for the trip.

    Average weight of a human is 70kg and i opt to have 150 passengers so 150 x 70 = 10500

    Luggage is 1 x 20kg suitcase p/p = 20 x 150 = 3000

    5 x crew (including pilots) = 5 x 70kg = 350kg

    total payload = 13850kg x 0.8 = 11080L

    look out for more detailed flight plans that i create + fly on FS2004. i will eventually get them displayed on here if all goes well.

    Total fuel = Estimated Fuel Burn + total payload (L)
    Rafa...Raf.a.el...Rafa...Raf.a.el...Rafa...Raf.a.el.. Raf.a.el Benitez

    We hate United.. We do!... We love you Liverpool.. We Do!!... WE HATE UNITED.. WE DO!!.. OOOHHH.. LIVERPOOL WE LOVE YOU!!!

  • #2
    Empty weight is empty, no fuel, no nothing.
    Don
    Standard practice for managers around the world:
    Ready - Fire - Aim! DAMN! Missed again!

    Comment


    • #3
      Wrong!

      Basic empty weight includes all fluids necessary for operation such as engine oil, engine coolant, and unusable fuel.
      Tanner Johnson - Owner
      twenty53 Photography

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tanner_J View Post
        Wrong!

        Basic empty weight includes all fluids necessary for operation such as engine oil, engine coolant, and unusable fuel.

        so how much usable fuel is included?
        Bigdaves question was "does the empty weight of an aircraft include the weight of the fuel for the flight."

        The answer is no.

        Further he specified "EMPTY WEIGHT" not basic operating weight which includes the items you included.

        Empty weight is the way I weigh an aircraft, all fluids drained or calculated (engine and APU oil) and removed. The fuel tanks are vacuumed dry and unusable fuel is calculated back in.

        Empty weight = Nothing but unusable fuel.

        Basic operating weight = No pay load, includes all fluids necessary to operate the aircraft, no flight fuel.

        Operating weight = The operating weight of the aircraft less fuel.


        Takeoff Weight = The weight of the aircraft at brake release for takeoff. Taxi fuel is discounted.

        Taxi Weight = The aircraft's weight at engine start.
        Don
        Standard practice for managers around the world:
        Ready - Fire - Aim! DAMN! Missed again!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks

          Dmmoore, your help is really useful as it will now probably solve any major problems that i have. Are you an ex pilot yourself by any chance?
          Last edited by bigdave; 2009-05-10, 09:43. Reason: wanted to get rid of my signature but i don't think i can
          Rafa...Raf.a.el...Rafa...Raf.a.el...Rafa...Raf.a.el.. Raf.a.el Benitez

          We hate United.. We do!... We love you Liverpool.. We Do!!... WE HATE UNITED.. WE DO!!.. OOOHHH.. LIVERPOOL WE LOVE YOU!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            PPL only. 3000 hours between 1964 and 2002 in SEL, SES, MEL, MES aircraft. J-3 Cub to Cessna 500 and most Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraft in between.

            A&P, Lead Mechanic, Maintenance Supervisor and Maintenance Controller for a major cargo airline (23 years) and Structures engineer (20 years) for another.
            Don
            Standard practice for managers around the world:
            Ready - Fire - Aim! DAMN! Missed again!

            Comment


            • #7
              You need to go by the ZFW (Zero Fuel Weight) if you need to know the aircraft weight with no fuel at all.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NickN View Post
                You need to go by the ZFW (Zero Fuel Weight) if you need to know the aircraft weight with no fuel at all.
                But ZFW includes payload.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • #9
                  What DMMoore has said is very useful information, and its good to get your head around which one is which.

                  In terms of day to day ops, the ones we need to know are Basic Operating Weight, to which you add payload/ballast to get Zero Fuel Weight (which is the aircraft ready to go but with no fuel).

                  Add your fuel load to that (which is predicted fuel burn, or flight fuel, plus certain reserves) and you get your taxi weight (the weight when you push back).

                  Weight at the start of the takeoff roll (brakes release, known as Brakes Release Weight or Takeoff Weight) is another limitation.

                  It is hard to know if the figures that FS2004 use are true empty weights, or they a rough Basic Operating Weight (as it varies from customer to customer, airframe to airframe).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MCM View Post
                    [...]

                    It is hard to know if the figures that FS2004 use are true empty weights, or they a rough Basic Operating Weight (as it varies from customer to customer, airframe to airframe).
                    I just looked it up, my FS9 says 394,660 lbs (weight empty) for a LH-B744 (Posky). And I think that is quite close to what she weighs if she really stands beside you, without pax and crew, without fuel and load.
                    That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
                    The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                    And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                    Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No way dear..
                      The weight of the jet does not includes the weight of the fuel...
                      Fuel filled after taking the weight...
                      642-813 and 642-832 course guide 642-901 and 642-902

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by borrows123 View Post
                        No way dear..
                        The weight of the jet does not includes the weight of the fuel...
                        Fuel filled after taking the weight...
                        Totally depends on what kind of weight we're talking about.

                        Standard Empty Weight is the weight of the airplane with full engine oil, operating fluids, and unusable fuel. Add any optional equipment to that (A nonstandard GPS or other avionics or instrumentation, cargo net, plush seat cushion, pimped out interior light board, etc) and you get Basic Empty Weight. Those are really the only two "empty weights" still used today, and realistically as a pilot/dispatcher you'll be using Basic Empty Weight for the weight and balance calc. Another weight that isn't really used anymore is Licensed Empty Weight, which is airframe, installed components, unusable fuel, and undrainable oil. Essentially the common denominator between every type of empty weight is unuseable fuel, so yes, in real life, weight of the jet does include the weight of unuseable fuel. Flightsim should reflect that.


                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X