Does the Empty Weight of an aircraft include weight of fuel?

[bigdave]

does the empty weight of an aircraft include the weight of the fuel for the flight.

for example on FS2004 it states that the empty weight for the Boeing 737-400 is 34500kg, the fuel capacity in litres is 20112 / 0.8 = 25140kg

34500-25140 = 9360kg for the actual aircraft w/o fuel.

I edge toward believing the weight of fuel is not included in E/W.

the payload also has to be calculated before calculating exact fuel required for the trip.

Average weight of a human is 70kg and i opt to have 150 passengers so 150 x 70 = 10500

Luggage is 1 x 20kg suitcase p/p = 20 x 150 = 3000

5 x crew (including pilots) = 5 x 70kg = 350kg

total payload = 13850kg x 0.8 = 11080L

look out for more detailed flight plans that i create + fly on FS2004. i will eventually get them displayed on here if all goes well.

Total fuel = Estimated Fuel Burn + total payload (L)

[Dmmoore]

Empty weight is empty, no fuel, no nothing.

[Tanner_J]

Wrong!

Basic empty weight includes all fluids necessary for operation such as engine oil, engine coolant, and unusable fuel.

[Dmmoore]

Wrong!

Basic empty weight includes all fluids necessary for operation such as engine oil, engine coolant, and unusable fuel.

so how much usable fuel is included?
Bigdaves question was "does the empty weight of an aircraft include the weight of the fuel for the flight."

The answer is no.

Further he specified "EMPTY WEIGHT" not basic operating weight which includes the items you included.

Empty weight is the way I weigh an aircraft, all fluids drained or calculated (engine and APU oil) and removed. The fuel tanks are vacuumed dry and unusable fuel is calculated back in.

Empty weight = Nothing but unusable fuel.

Basic operating weight = No pay load, includes all fluids necessary to operate the aircraft, no flight fuel.

Operating weight = The operating weight of the aircraft less fuel.


Takeoff Weight = The weight of the aircraft at brake release for takeoff. Taxi fuel is discounted.

Taxi Weight = The aircraft's weight at engine start.

[bigdave]

Thanks

Dmmoore, your help is really useful as it will now probably solve any major problems that i have. Are you an ex pilot yourself by any chance?

[Dmmoore]

PPL only. 3000 hours between 1964 and 2002 in SEL, SES, MEL, MES aircraft. J-3 Cub to Cessna 500 and most Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraft in between.

A&P, Lead Mechanic, Maintenance Supervisor and Maintenance Controller for a major cargo airline (23 years) and Structures engineer (20 years) for another.

[NickN]

You need to go by the ZFW (Zero Fuel Weight) if you need to know the aircraft weight with no fuel at all.

[Gabriel]

You need to go by the ZFW (Zero Fuel Weight) if you need to know the aircraft weight with no fuel at all.

But ZFW includes payload.

[MCM]

What DMMoore has said is very useful information, and its good to get your head around which one is which.

In terms of day to day ops, the ones we need to know are Basic Operating Weight, to which you add payload/ballast to get Zero Fuel Weight (which is the aircraft ready to go but with no fuel).

Add your fuel load to that (which is predicted fuel burn, or flight fuel, plus certain reserves) and you get your taxi weight (the weight when you push back).

Weight at the start of the takeoff roll (brakes release, known as Brakes Release Weight or Takeoff Weight) is another limitation.

It is hard to know if the figures that FS2004 use are true empty weights, or they a rough Basic Operating Weight (as it varies from customer to customer, airframe to airframe).

[LH-B744]

[...]

It is hard to know if the figures that FS2004 use are true empty weights, or they a rough Basic Operating Weight (as it varies from customer to customer, airframe to airframe).

I just looked it up, my FS9 says 394,660 lbs (weight empty) for a LH-B744 (Posky). And I think that is quite close to what she weighs if she really stands beside you, without pax and crew, without fuel and load.

[borrows123]

No way dear..
The weight of the jet does not includes the weight of the fuel...
Fuel filled after taking the weight...

[E-Diddy!]

No way dear..
The weight of the jet does not includes the weight of the fuel...
Fuel filled after taking the weight...

Totally depends on what kind of weight we're talking about.

Standard Empty Weight is the weight of the airplane with full engine oil, operating fluids, and unusable fuel. Add any optional equipment to that (A nonstandard GPS or other avionics or instrumentation, cargo net, plush seat cushion, pimped out interior light board, etc) and you get Basic Empty Weight. Those are really the only two "empty weights" still used today, and realistically as a pilot/dispatcher you'll be using Basic Empty Weight for the weight and balance calc. Another weight that isn't really used anymore is Licensed Empty Weight, which is airframe, installed components, unusable fuel, and undrainable oil. Essentially the common denominator between every type of empty weight is unuseable fuel, so yes, in real life, weight of the jet does include the weight of unuseable fuel. Flightsim should reflect that.