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  • #16
    Hello Steve,

    I don't think we need to put lots of words in your case, but since you intrinsically still don't feel any guilt to continue to play this unfair game, I have to say:

    You have a lot more ways of getting your "guessing aircraft" activities done on Instagram. For instance, you can post a portion of it and reveal it 24 hrs (or no matter how many hrs you like) later in either your "stories" or your posts without bothering this whole JetPhotos community. You can even create your own website that will contain the information you want to introduce to your fans. But simply because you want to proceed your personal activity will enoughly sacrifice the principles of the creation of this whole community.

    We all know this is a photo community, not a person or fan community. Popularity in this site should be based on how beautiful, how cool, or how striking the photo is, rather than how popular this photographer is. If your photos are good enough to be topped, you don't even need your fans: everyone will endorse them. But getting views through your large community of fans is literally cheating by using your personal influence. As far as I know, I'm not denying people linking JP webs to outside and since JP is not a competition or a scholar website, I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing photos on JP to others either. But no one is doing the same thing as you do here, and you know exactly what the influences will be when you post your photos on Insta stories (just see my attachments folks). It's against everyone's will of endorsement. This community does not belong to only you and your fans - it belongs to everyone. What you do in this site is not just for yourself, your fans, or JP crew members. It is for everyone.

    Simply speaking: Stop being selfish. Stop playing your personal game under a public forum. It's notorious. I hope you reconsider your actions to keep our environment of this community.

    Thanks,
    Jim
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by rindejr View Post
      All,
      First, the comments on my most recent upload are ridiculous and immature (if you have an issue reach out to me directly). One comment by a newly-created anonymous account (brave person) said I am a “SHAMELESS CHEATER,” well I have confirmation that linking through social media is not illegal on JP, and in fact is ok to do, but maybe I could slow down on it.

      Which brings me to my next point. I view my aviation online presence as a holistic unit, cross-pollinating from one platform to another. On Instagram I create stories that that make people guess what aircraft/airline is in the partial picture, and link that to my Jetphotos upload. Seems like a legitimate thing to do? Another comment on my most recent upload, N405DX, said “click bait,” well, you are free to think that, but I can tell you I get good feedback on my IG Stories that people like guessing the aircraft.

      Some are commenting that my photos are quite normal, and there is some legitimacy to that. However, in my opinion there are many photos on the front page that are even more “normal” than mine, but there are also some that are a much higher quality. I could name a few photographers that in my opinion should have most of their photos on the front page. But the reality is that a whole lot of the photos that make it there are actually linked through outside sources.

      What I didn’t expect, but maybe should have, is that a portion of the population on JP would get annoyed at seeing my pictures on the front page a lot. I assumed people wouldn’t care enough or have the time to get worked-up about something like this when there is no money involved (nobody is losing out by not getting on the front page.) Also, there are four continuously revolving front page slots, not one.

      For those concerned, I will be uploading far more infrequently. This is out of respect for the Jetphotos crew who I don’t want to create a headache for - having to answer questions about why this random guy is always on the front page. I’m not doing it for those trivial complaints. I will continue to link my few photos on social media, because that’s what I choose to do and my followers enjoy it.


      Regards,

      Steve
      This response, in my opinion, shows a high level of immaturity. Your activities on social media are out of JP and the community's control, and everyone knows that. There are a lot of genuine criticisms from people in this very thread that simply and respectfully ask you to allow other photographers to have a chance, and yet you ignore them and highlight the cheap shots people have taken at you (I do not condone them in any way and agree, the comments on your photos should have been kept private). Writing off the respectful criticism as people getting worked up about nothing doesn't help anyone. There is no need for hostility, and I have only seen that from a select few people, including yourself. I certainly don't want to make enemies here, I think you have a lot of great photos, but this needs to be sorted out, out of respect for the JP volunteers and for the wider community.

      Thanks, Leon

      Comment


      • #18
        We had contact with Steve about this.

        In the past we put restrictions on uploaders who where linking everywhere to get hits and top shots. But in these days that is impossible. Almost all top shots are getting more views due to social media linking, or screeners choice selecting (which is more satisfying imo).

        I hope Steve will link only a selection of his shots as of now, because indeed we would like to offer any uploader a chance to get on the front page.

        And for the comments.... yeah not needed and yes we delete them if they are to offensive.

        Pls remember it is a hobby, not a life.
        “The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.”

        Erwin

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by rindejr View Post
          Which brings me to my next point. I view my aviation online presence as a holistic unit, cross-pollinating from one platform to another. On Instagram I create stories that that make people guess what aircraft/airline is in the partial picture, and link that to my Jetphotos upload. Seems like a legitimate thing to do? Another comment on my most recent upload, N405DX, said “click bait,” well, you are free to think that, but I can tell you I get good feedback on my IG Stories that people like guessing the aircraft.
          Well I have 2 concerns:
          why do you link your jp photos if you just make stories and let people guess what the aircraft/airline is?
          The only thing you were saying was people like guessing the aircraft, but this has anything to do with linking the jp photo link to your stories? Right here everyone is talking about putting links to the social media and who cares whatever those people like guessing or not
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Jim Li View Post
            Hello Steve,

            I don't think we need to put lots of words in your case, but since you intrinsically still don't feel any guilt to continue to play this unfair game, I have to say:

            .....You have a lot more ways of getting your "guessing aircraft" activities done on Instagram. For instance, you can post a portion of it and reveal it 24 hrs (or no matter how many hrs you like) later in either your "stories" or your posts without bothering this whole JetPhotos community.......
            Spot-on !

            Sure what you do is not forbidden but you need to stop with such excuses. You found a way to cheat the system in a legal way, good for you. What you're doing is against the JP community, against all the hard work the crew is putting in the site but does that even mean anything for you ?

            The IG attitude (I'll do anything for views and followers) is not the way I see JP and I sincerely hope we'll never be like that, unfortunately, what you're doing is just another step in that direction...
            it's kinda sad....

            Alex (JP Manager)
            Last edited by Alex - Spot-This !; 2021-02-18, 16:51.

            Comment


            • #21
              +1

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Alex - Spot-This ! View Post

                Spot-on !

                Sure what you do is not forbidden but you need to stop with such excuses. You found a way to cheat the system is a legal way, good for you. What you're doing is against the JP community, against all the hard work the crew is putting in the site but does that even mean anything for you ?

                The IG attitude (I'll do anything for views and followers) is not the way I see JP and I sincerely hope we'll never be like that, unfortunately, what you're doing is just another step in that direction...
                it's kinda sad....

                Alex (JP Manager)

                I totally agree. The excuses are immature and evasive. Jp should be a place where everyone has a chance of reaching the front page. The actions of Steve Rinde, though "legal", is intrinsically unfair and abusive of the climate of this website.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Alex - Spot-This ! View Post

                  Spot-on !

                  Sure what you do is not forbidden but you need to stop with such excuses. You found a way to cheat the system in a legal way, good for you. What you're doing is against the JP community, against all the hard work the crew is putting in the site but does that even mean anything for you ?

                  The IG attitude (I'll do anything for views and followers) is not the way I see JP and I sincerely hope we'll never be like that, unfortunately, what you're doing is just another step in that direction...
                  it's kinda sad....

                  Alex (JP Manager)
                  "What you're doing is against the JP community, against all the hard work the crew is putting in the site but does that even mean anything for you ?" Yes it does, especially your latter point. That is why when I was personally contacted by a JP crew member and asked to "slow down" I responded respectfully and agreed. Stating I would finish out my current queue of a couple and drop way down to one every week or two (by which count I would not be the most frequent "front pager"). What I don't do typically is be swayed by a handful of dissenting voices on a forum who start off with "annoyed" and such sort of comments. My question to those would be, why didn't you contact me personally?

                  "Excuses" and "evasive" seem to be popular terms for me right now. Those are opinions. I have stated on here what I do and it's very easy to understand why, even if you don't agree. By excuses I'm sure people mean my "bad behavior," to that I'd just say that I haven't been deeply involved in this particular JP Community that views that as bad behavior - using social media to boost and such. It has been acknowledged on here that people do SM sharing. Maybe even some of my critics? I guess it's a degree issue then. A fair and good point can be made that every 24hrs is too much, but that begs the question. How frequent is too much; every two days, five days, week? I'd appreciate a rough estimate at least. The people who consistently hit "like" on my Jetphotos uploads through all of this, should they be reprimanded for encouraging my bad behavior? NO! Or, do they have a different mindset of community on here? I could easily make the argument that I was following the lead of "that community" as opposed to "this community". Are there different communities/mindsets on here, or is there only community and anti-community. I'm sure I'll be looked at now as a rogue on here, or "notorious" to quote Jim Li. But I'm just provoking the idea of diverse views on here. So for the person who called me immature, think on that for a bit.

                  Again, I go back to who contacted me personally? When that happened I engaged immediately and respectfully, discussed and explained, and corrected my course. As a general rule, I recommend that to anyone - if you have issue with someone, first contact them privately. The community will be much more healthy. I could make the argument that not doing this is just as harmful to the community, and much more hostile and prone to "group-think".Does anyone disagree? I am engaging publicly here because people have made it public.

                  I've already spent too much time and concern here for a fun hobby. But I don't have hard feelings toward anyone on here and wish you all the best. As I said, I will be posting and linking once every week or two if that is ok. If people want to throw out some numbers on how frequently I can link on social media, maybe that would be helpful as well. We can't talk quality of shot, because that is an opinion and the front page has a wide variety of quality, in my opinion. Or a rule needs to be made that "no external linking," but I'm not sure how that would go over with those selling advertising on JP.

                  I'd also add that if you don't have the time or desire to engage privately and personally with someone, maybe the issue not that important in the first place.

                  I do enjoy Jetphotos and will continue to use it as long as I'm allowed. And I appreciate the time and dedication the employees and volunteers spend on it.

                  Regards,
                  Steve

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Steve,
                    Only a couple of hours after discussing with Erwin you made another similar Story, just hours....

                    How do you want us to believe you got the message ? It's not about doing it less, it's about not doing it at all, or accept the consequences from the community if you keep doing it.

                    We have all wasted enough time but let me take a chance to share what the issue is with IG...

                    You need to understand that followers and likes on IG mean absolutely NOTHING about the quality of the photo itself. IG is only about popularity and how you promote yourself. Using that so call popularity to boost the views on your JP photos is EXACTLY what I wish we will never become... So no we're not going to block you or anything but... I still have hope that you understand that what you are doing is clearly against what we want JP to be... simple as that.


                    And you know... getting your pic on top page without any kind of promotion is a great feeling, really....

                    Alex

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rindejr View Post
                      I will be posting and linking once every week or two if that is ok. If people want to throw out some numbers on how frequently I can link on social media, maybe that would be helpful as well.
                      The difference between fair and dishonest doesn't seem to be a question of weekly amount....

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Alex - Spot-This ! View Post
                        Steve,
                        Only a couple of hours after discussing with Erwin you made another similar Story, just hours....

                        How do you want us to believe you got the message ? It's not about doing it less, it's about not doing it at all, or accept the consequences from the community if you keep doing it.

                        We have all wasted enough time but let me take a chance to share what the issue is with IG...

                        You need to understand that followers and likes on IG mean absolutely NOTHING about the quality of the photo itself. IG is only about popularity and how you promote yourself. Using that so call popularity to boost the views on your JP photos is EXACTLY what I wish we will never become... So no we're not going to block you or anything but... I still have hope that you understand that what you are doing is clearly against what we want JP to be... simple as that.


                        And you know... getting your pic on top page without any kind of promotion is a great feeling, really....

                        Alex
                        Messaged you privately, Alex.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          All,

                          There was quite a bit of confusion about unspoken rules on my part, and miscommunication on all sides. I chatted with Alex privately where we could clear some confusion and really have a conversation in a better format than back-and-forth forum posts. He articulated some very good points that made me think.

                          I can see why my daily linking annoyed some people, and to those who respectfully pointed it out, I do apologize. Honestly, I got into auto-pilot mode, tunnel vision, whatever you want to call it, between my Instagram account and JP, without thinking too much about it and how others on here may be feeling - that was selfish of me. I wouldn't apologize unless I really meant it - I hate when people apologize because they are told to.

                          Regards,
                          Steve

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Obviously, almost no one clicks on those instagram stories. There are plenty of websites who sell website traffic:
                            https://www.verytraffic.com
                            https://hitleap.com

                            Just saying...

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