Upgrade from 80D for better autofocus?

[eurowing]

Hello,

I have the Canon 80D and use it with the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens.

The autofocus on the camera is supposed to be fairly good, but I find that a lot of shots are not in perfect focus. It seems to be better when shooting planes with a dark livery, but on a sunny day the low contrast on a mostly white fuselage is not good enough to give the camera a good focus point. I guess. I have tried all options (single shot, servo, many focus points and also only one, trying to put it on a part of the airplane that does have contrast) with no improvement.

This can be very frustrating when you shoot a rare airplane and only get one, if any, good picture of it. And I know how much better pictures I could get, because sometimes they actually do turn out really good. Just not often.

Reading the experiences/reviews on the newer Canon mirrorless cameras as the R7 or R6, the autofocus on those might be better. Does anyone have experience with one of these, coming from the 80D? Is the autofocus noticeably better and worth the investment?

Thanks!

Denis

[JakTrax]

Many people have found the same AF issues with both the 80D and 90D. The R10 appears to have a similar flaw, but almost exclusively with mostly white aircraft and only when using the RF 24-105 f/4 L IS (in my experience). This would suggest an issue with how the latest Canon 24mp and 32mp APS-C sensors interact with the PDAF, but this doesn't account for similar (although far less serious) issues with the company's APS-C mirrorless offerings (since the AF systems in mirrorless are different).

I've been using the RF system for four years, having started with an EOS RP in 2018. A great camera but a bit slow for aviation, and suffering quite distracting blackout between frames. I recently bought an R6 and I couldn't be happier — best camera I've ever used, in every way. To be honest, any of the RF full-frame cameras deliver super-accurate and lightning fast AF. It's a different ball game to DSLRs — you can wave goodbye to that one annoying frame that turns out blurry when doing a series of shots (where the AF seems to have momentarily readjusted while composing). The AF points (numbering in their thousands) virtually cover 100% of the frame, and once it's locked focus it doesn't let go.

My only gripe with mirrorless is/was the EVFs, but the one in the R6 is so similar to a OVF that any differences aren't noticeable in real-world application.

I'd say the like-for-like mirrorless 80D is the R10; the R7 being the spiritual 7D II successor. The new R8 seems to be the replacement for the RP, while also being the spiritual successor to the 6D II. The R6 is more like a 5D IV equivalent, and the R5 somewhere in between the 5D IV and 1Dx III.

I fully recommend the R6, but I think coming from an 80D the R8 is a worthy upgrade. The only issue with the R8 is the 6fps offered by the first-curtain shutter, although that's not too dissimilar to the 7fps of the 80D.

One thing's for sure: with an RF full-frame body I can guarantee the AF issues associated with your 80D will go away. Also, I've found that adapted native EF glass works just as well (if not better) on the mirrorless bodies.

[eurowing]

That sound like a big fat “yes” to my question.

Thank you very much for your very informative response! Much appreciated!

[Oojiflip]

Hello,

I have the Canon 80D and use it with the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens.

The autofocus on the camera is supposed to be fairly good, but I find that a lot of shots are not in perfect focus. It seems to be better when shooting planes with a dark livery, but on a sunny day the low contrast on a mostly white fuselage is not good enough to give the camera a good focus point. I guess. I have tried all options (single shot, servo, many focus points and also only one, trying to put it on a part of the airplane that does have contrast) with no improvement.

This can be very frustrating when you shoot a rare airplane and only get one, if any, good picture of it. And I know how much better pictures I could get, because sometimes they actually do turn out really good. Just not often.

Reading the experiences/reviews on the newer Canon mirrorless cameras as the R7 or R6, the autofocus on those might be better. Does anyone have experience with one of these, coming from the 80D? Is the autofocus noticeably better and worth the investment?

Thanks!

Denis

That's weird, I use an 80D with a Sigma 150-600 contemporary which should have miles worse autofocus performance but manages to nail every shot in a 30 shot burst as the plane is coming towards me. I use servo on point autofocus in the center of the frame. Even with landing lights on in bad light the camera is still pin point accurate every time. Could be an issue with a load of dust on your sensor, could be that you're noticing focus a lot more because you're getting shallow DOF with f/2.8, the camera could be damaged and the same with the lens. Even on full focus range at 600mm f/6.3 (or 7.1 sometimes) mine focuses quickly and doesn't search at all after it picks up the subject on the first focus.

[eurowing]

That's weird, I use an 80D with a Sigma 150-600 contemporary which should have miles worse autofocus performance but manages to nail every shot in a 30 shot burst as the plane is coming towards me. I use servo on point autofocus in the center of the frame. Even with landing lights on in bad light the camera is still pin point accurate every time. Could be an issue with a load of dust on your sensor, could be that you're noticing focus a lot more because you're getting shallow DOF with f/2.8, the camera could be damaged and the same with the lens. Even on full focus range at 600mm f/6.3 (or 7.1 sometimes) mine focuses quickly and doesn't search at all after it picks up the subject on the first focus.

I bought the camera new 5 years ago and had this problem from the start. The same for the lenses, I bought them the same year. So, the sensor is clean, which I also had it cleaned recently and the problem still persists.

In the beginning I shot with 2.8 almost exclusively, because I wanted the shortest exposure time, and it took me a while to figure out that even at far distances, the depth of field was too small to get the whole plane in focus. I was surprised by that for sure. I thought this would be an issue at closer range than an airborne aircraft.

Last year I even went to my local camera store, and they checked the camera and lens, and they told me it works fine. I do wonder sometimes if I am expecting too much from my camera, but I know the pictures can look better than what I am getting. Because sometimes the pictures turn out quite good, but only a few in between. Very few.

[Oojiflip]

I bought the camera new 5 years ago and had this problem from the start. The same for the lenses, I bought them the same year. So, the sensor is clean, which I also had it cleaned recently and the problem still persists.

In the beginning I shot with 2.8 almost exclusively, because I wanted the shortest exposure time, and it took me a while to figure out that even at far distances, the depth of field was too small to get the whole plane in focus. I was surprised by that for sure. I thought this would be an issue at closer range than an airborne aircraft.

Last year I even went to my local camera store, and they checked the camera and lens, and they told me it works fine. I do wonder sometimes if I am expecting too much from my camera, but I know the pictures can look better than what I am getting. Because sometimes the pictures turn out quite good, but only a few in between. Very few.

Something is 100% wrong, could be worth trying to get down to a wex or something and asking to try out another lens on your body, and potentially another body on your lens, could show a problem

[JakTrax]

This is a known issue with early 80 and 90D models, which may well have been rectified. They appear to have been placing the active focus point(s) either in front of or behind the subject, which would ordinarily indicate a lens issue — however my 80D would misbehave irrespective of what lens I used (lenses that, incidentally, worked fine on all my other DSLRs). The issue would be much worse when focussing on mostly white aircraft, such as the LH livery or the mostly-white TCX and LS summer leases. One-shot mode worked better but for fast-moving subjects I found my 80D very unreliable and offloaded it pretty quickly. Many of the images I shot with it were unusably soft/blurry.

I have over 35 years' experience shooting aircraft, on both slide and digital. It was a fault unique to the 80D. I conducted some very controlled tests to attempt to troubleshoot the problem but the only thing I could broadly attribute it to was how the AF system in the 80D behaved in conjunction with that particular 24mp sensor. My EOS R10 suffers with the same issue on predominantly white aircraft, although to a much lesser degree. It shares the 80D's sensor but not its AF system, so it's still somewhat of a mystery.

I migrated to Canon's RF mirrorless system in 2018 and currently use the R10, RP and R6. Certainly no issues with either the RP or the R6, and the R10 is fine for the most part.

Karl

[eurowing]

This is a known issue with early 80 and 90D models, which may well have been rectified. They appear to have been placing the active focus point(s) either in front of or behind the subject, which would ordinarily indicate a lens issue — however my 80D would misbehave irrespective of what lens I used (lenses that, incidentally, worked fine on all my other DSLRs). The issue would be much worse when focussing on mostly white aircraft, such as the LH livery or the mostly-white TCX and LS summer leases. One-shot mode worked better but for fast-moving subjects I found my 80D very unreliable and offloaded it pretty quickly. Many of the images I shot with it were unusably soft/blurry.

I have over 35 years' experience shooting aircraft, on both slide and digital. It was a fault unique to the 80D. I conducted some very controlled tests to attempt to troubleshoot the problem but the only thing I could broadly attribute it to was how the AF system in the 80D behaved in conjunction with that particular 24mp sensor. My EOS R10 suffers with the same issue on predominantly white aircraft, although to a much lesser degree. It shares the 80D's sensor but not its AF system, so it's still somewhat of a mystery.

I migrated to Canon's RF mirrorless system in 2018 and currently use the R10, RP and R6. Certainly no issues with either the RP or the R6, and the R10 is fine for the most part.

Karl

Thanks for the reply, Karl!

I bought mine in May 2018, so about two years after release. Would that still be considered early model?

Denis

[JakTrax]

I'm really not sure, Denis, it's been a long time since I researched the 80D's AF issues. But I can say that other photographers I was in contact with reported the same problem. When I owned my 80D I also had three other Canon DSLRs and there were no issues with any of them. What was happening was definitely an AF fault — it wasn't dirt on the sensor, or insufficient DoF, or front/back-focussing of the lenses. It's odd that the R10 exhibits similar traits, but only in very specific conditions. Since mirrorless AF is completely different it suggests a problem with the way in which the AF interacts with that particular 24mp sensor (since the R10's sensor is that of the 80D).

It is possible that 24mp on such a small sensor presents a real challenge for lenses, in that many are just incapable of resolving that much resolution. But I was using premium L lenses with my 80D and I never once felt that my lenses were struggling to resolve that sensor. I even presented my findings to Canon but, predictably, they claimed there were no known problems.

You can try micro-adjusting but, in my opinion, a camera requiring MA to function correctly is indicative of poor quality control. I ultimately got fed up of the 80D and sold it, after only a few months' use. The 80D was the first (and so far only) camera I've had this experience with. My advice is to sell it and go mirrorless — I assure you, the R6 and even the five-year-old RP are superb cameras and do not suffer from the same issues as the 80D.

Karl

[eurowing]

I'm really not sure, Denis, it's been a long time since I researched the 80D's AF issues. But I can say that other photographers I was in contact with reported the same problem. When I owned my 80D I also had three other Canon DSLRs and there were no issues with any of them. What was happening was definitely an AF fault — it wasn't dirt on the sensor, or insufficient DoF, or front/back-focussing of the lenses. It's odd that the R10 exhibits similar traits, but only in very specific conditions. Since mirrorless AF is completely different it suggests a problem with the way in which the AF interacts with that particular 24mp sensor (since the R10's sensor is that of the 80D).

It is possible that 24mp on such a small sensor presents a real challenge for lenses, in that many are just incapable of resolving that much resolution. But I was using premium L lenses with my 80D and I never once felt that my lenses were struggling to resolve that sensor. I even presented my findings to Canon but, predictably, they claimed there were no known problems.

You can try micro-adjusting but, in my opinion, a camera requiring MA to function correctly is indicative of poor quality control. I ultimately got fed up of the 80D and sold it, after only a few months' use. The 80D was the first (and so far only) camera I've had this experience with. My advice is to sell it and go mirrorless — I assure you, the R6 and even the five-year-old RP are superb cameras and do not suffer from the same issues as the 80D.

Karl

Thank you for all your great information, Karl. Much appreciated!

Denis