I quit Airliners.net

[egll]

I really hope you haven't shot yourself in the foot here Clovis, you made some great posts and had some terrific pictures on the other site but that really doesn't matter too much in the big picture, A.net will go on and will continue to become more and more exclusive in terms of what is acceptable and what isn't. We've all had rejections that we can't explain and it is those rejections that leave some of us gobsmacked about the inconsistencies that can appear to prevail at times. But we get over these rejections and get on with the next batch to upload.

I completely understand where you are coming from, two weeks ago I was in the same place, an unusually high number of rejections for what I felt at the time to be petty reasons. I was just short of 500 pictures in the Db and decided that maybe I should get to 500 and then give up and save myself the dissappointment, but I would at least give it a few days to consider things. So I left it for a few days, let my remaining uploads work their way through the queue and switched off from it for a week or so. After reassessing what I should upload I have just had a fairly large batch directly added, but at the same time I've done the same here and at PP so the result is that I am now uploading higher quality stuff at all three sites which is better for everyone.

It's easy for all of us to sit around like 'BigMac' and whine when things don't go our way, but it takes a bigger person to accept that their material isn't up to standard and try and improve it. I think that you are one of the bigger people Clovis, and like it or not the EK330 is soft and shouldn't be left like that-it can be improved and when it has been improved (sharpened) it would be welcome on any database. But I agree with what you are saying about 'badscan'-it is a little too vague but maybe the screeners don't have the time to be more specific.

I'm sorry but I think you have acted in haste and may come to regret this decision, especially removing all your pictures-I don't see what that achieves. There are a lot of people on this forum who would love to have just one picture on A.net and might see this as arrogance, 'I got a picture rejected so I'm taking all my pictures off the Db' etc.



Matt

[Leftseat86]

Matt, I understand, but WHY did the screener not say "badsoft"? It would make it so much easier! I wouldnt mind!

I dont like the hype around A.net either. Why does having photos on A.net make you a bigger photographer than having photos here? Why do they have to make it so competitive all the time?

They havn't e-mailed me back with my request, so we'll see...I'm still pissed off though, and I'm still banned from the forum for another STUPID reason...

-Clovis

[egll]

What do you mean by competitive?

The only competition that I have seen is the A.net diehards who diss all the other db's with comments like 'they'll soon come back to Anet when they realise what a mistake they've made' etc etc. But this vibe is repeated over here by people saying that Anet is rubbish because they are too elitist.

I often wonder what the long term plan is for this ite and lso for Anet, as contributors we should know whether we are playing our part in creating a historical database or whether it's all just bout getting more hits. If we know that then we might know what sort of pictures are more likely to be accepted.

I upload here because it is more relaxed and the same goes for PP.net, I upload to A.net because I have made friends through feedback from my pictures and unfortunately I get very little feedbck from my pictures on JP when compared to what I get from the pictures on A.net.


Matt

[Kenneth]

I've had my share of frustrations too with rejections airliners.net but I get over it quite soon. The reason is that it is not my website, I don't pay for its operation, so in my opinion they are free to impose whatever regulations they want. The way I see it is that if someone doesn't want my picture, then that`s their loss not mine. And nobody forced you to pay for the forum access, that was your own choice! Maybe that place will indeed be reduced to a few "regulars", but so what? I have no problem with that. These "regulars" (such as Messrs Unmuth, Pedley, Work, de Graaf, Bevere etc.) are very, very, very good photographers whose work inspires me and makes me learn. I'll just take my pics somewhere else then. Whether this site or the other, both are great and it's all just a hobby which we should enjoy! In summary, I personally find your reaction(s) somewhat exaggerated.

PS! I had a pic which was accepted at airliners.net rejected here....!

[Skymonster]

Photography is supposed to be fun, not a business like A.net are turning it into...they just ruin the whole point. I almost forgot why I started taking photos...for myself! And for enjoyment! To relax! Getting everything rejected all the time isnt relaxing! Its too much work...

Clovis,

Right on - mostly! But you know what - that's why I don't care about the rejections. I enjoyed taking the photograph so if airliners.net, or this site, or PlanePictures (I've had more rejections there than anywhere) don't want my picture then that's fine - I still have it and I still enjoyed taking it.

Best wishes, whatever you decide to do next,

Andy

[Scunner]

What irritates me is the constant flow of accepted pics at A.net which are below standard, taken at the wrong time of day (sun behind the plane) and boring subjects..: Fokker 50s and Transavia 737s with bad light and low quality... I cant stand it that those are accepted while others like yours are dismissed... I am talking about Amsterdam, and if you want to have a look at them, just do a search for AMS and look about 4 pages down....

That is an arrogant Wietse.

Be happy with your own photographs.
When you publicly express those thoughts, you lose all your credibility.

[Skymonster]

Maybe that place will indeed be reduced to a few "regulars", but so what? I have no problem with that. These "regulars" (such as Messrs Unmuth, Pedley, Work, de Graaf, Bevere etc.) are very, very, very good photographers whose work inspires me and makes me learn.

Look guys, I don't want to turn my postings or this topic into a "why airliners.net isn't all bad" kind of thing - you know I have a vested interest so there's no point in me trying to do that. But you also know what - I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen favouritism in terms of image quality given to the Unmuths, Pries, or others mentioned above. If they get it, they don't get it from me.

Clovis, I wish you well with your photography whatever the outcome. You have captured some unique images and I hope you continue to share them with us, however you choose to do that. I'm still hopefull that I'll be at MAN on 28 May - maybe I'll be able to say hello in person there.

Andy

[JeffinDEN]

Hey Clovis, you know I am a supporter of your shots, here and there. What I see in that shot is that it is "soft", a little undersaturated, and there is quite a bit of CA around the edges. It can be fixed, and I agree with Andy on this one. It just is not your best shot. Take a break from uploading for a while and when you get back in the swing of things you'll see a big difference.

Jeff

[fallingeese]

Clovis

You know I support you, and we have talked in the past. We use the same digital camera....lets ignore the fact the I also use an F65, but that is another story. I photo is a touch on the soft side, but alot of the photos from your camera do....personal expieriance.

I resently had a shot rejected for "badscan" the humour, is that is was a digital shot.

In my opinion giving up on Airliners.net, is giving up alot. The views, and contacts from that site far exceed, what exposure you will recieve here. I have 100 photos at Airliners.net, and 300 photos and jetphotos.net. Yet I have been contacted solely through my airliners.net photos. If it wasn't for Airliners.net I wouldn't have a photo contract with Zip, I wouldn't be a published photographer, I wouldn't be where I am.

I use jetphotos.net to show the stuff that I know the other site will view as low quality. It's the stuff I have fun with.

Remember you're in this to have fun, and you have the potential, don't give up.

On your Airways dealings, the reason they will offer you $10 a photo is because it will appear in the back of the magazine in the deliveries section.

Mark McWhirter

[Luis Rosa]

Clovis wrote:

"Oh please don't start doing this A.net style... I got banned for calling Indianguy a "motherfucker" in ONE post. He said that "Americans are fair game for Islamic terrorists, they are fighting for their liberation"

I think your problem is the non-aviation forum, not the photo. You know everyone can ask for help in the aviation photography forum and someone will give you tips to improve a rejected photo. In the rejection email it's written to ask for help on the aviation photography forum, people there are very friendly and always give good advices on how to improve rejected photos.

You give up very easy, bad for you. And you're trying to blame the screeners for your problems on the playground (non aviation forum).

Bye.
Luis

[iceman]

I'd have to agree with Luis here. It seems your problem is with the moderation on that site, which is piss-poor, and not the screeners. They should be entirerly different entities. I'm not sure about internal A.net politics anymore as I no longer post on that site, but I have heard that the screeners have become all the more anal in what they accept. Maybe the sentiment of the moderators is seeping to other aspects of the site?

I would agree with Luis in that the Photo forums on A.net are very helpful and informative, if the Civil, tech and non-av are not.

Either way, A.net is not doing itself a favor by losing a lot of members and photographers.

[Leftseat86]

Oh yeah, my problem is much more with the moderators then with the screeners man. But this reject just put icing on the cake. I think I may stay, but I need time to cool off...thanks for the help guys.

-Clovis

[Wietse]

Yo scunner... I am not saying I dont like the photographs, if they are worthy to get added, so be it, I just wont look at them. Simply all aircraft coming by are photographed. That is not a problem, since I do that too, but they are all uploaded too! What im saying is pick your best shots and upload them!! Quality over Quantity! But this isnt too bad and it wont irritate me...

The thing that does irritates me, is the rejection of some shots that are special or marginal rejections in contrast to the acceptance of those bad side ons.

And : I just think its a shame that people go to locations at times when the sun and light is just so bad. Going to another location would easily solve that...

[egll]

If you are talking about the JAL side on shot then I see where you are coming from, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I like shots where the angle of the low sun (particularly in winter) brings out details and shadows that you wouldn't otherwise see-but the JAL shot takes it too far in my opinion.

Badmotiv is a very tough rejection-what is artistic to one person is badly composed to another, but that's where JP comes in, one of of my very first uploads here was a Twin Otter sitting on the tarmac (if one could call it that) at a landing strip in the middle of Papua New Guinea, the whole village (plus various animals) turned up to see the plane and were all included as what I felt was an integral part of the picture. There is no way it would ever get on A.net because it would be 'badpeople' and maybe 'badmotiv' but it was accepted with no problems here so everyone else can see how the weekly flight is regarded in the more remote parts of the world.

Anyway, what you say about AMS is true and it is also true of LHR. I live close enough to LHR to go there every day if I want so I can be very selective about what I upload but it is annoying to see some guys visit LHR for a day and then try and upload every picture they have taken. My last day out was to Edinburgh and despite taking over 100 shots I think I only uploaded about 10 to A.net so not living near to an airport isn't an excuse not to self-screen.



Matt

[Wietse]

Matt,

I was not in perticular reffering to the JAL side on shot. I can accept that shot, as JAL only comes in on that runway at that time. I can see why you want to shoot and upload it.

My 'problem' is with other pics that are no good photographs...

What makes a good photograph?
- lighting
- composition
- subject

I am talking about shots that are
-backlit (or in any case the sun is not behind the photog at all)
-3/4 rear shots in the approach
-Fokker 50s, Transavia 737s etc... just the regular boring stuff..

And again, if there is no other possibility to shoot a/c at that time, its fine with me... but just take a 10 mins drive, and you have PERFECT sunshine!

Wietse