First spotting trip to the USA....

[andrew_c]

And wow... did it suck....

Took the 2 hour drive from London to Detroit today to take shots for a friend coming in from Narita. Not 2 seconds after we got out, "Supercop" showed up demanding us to leave the property. Apparantly, these "terror" threats give the right to these airport police to kick us off non-airport property (we were on the other side of the I-94 along a side road).

But hey, it gets better!

I hear supercop screaming at us to stop, so I do. I turn around, proceeding to walk over and show him my ID.

Now it gets interesting!

He puts his hand on his gun, screaming at me to drop everything and to stay still. Ok, I do so, as he calls backup. 2 minutes after that, supercops counterparts show up with lights flashing everywhere. So, here I am, scared shitless.

Again, after a few minutes, supercop's friends go away after we were cleared. He sits there giving us this lecture on how photographing planes is illegal, should not be done. Then he asks why my friend isnt responding and starts screaming at him.

For those who don't know my friend Frank Robitaile, he is deaf. I tried to tell the cop, but he just told me to shut up.

Anyways, to make a long story short, we stayed there. We argued that he was beyond his jurisdiction, and his supervisior told him something, left.

Anyways, I dobut I will be doing that again!

Here are some quick shots

Crazy S-turns with crosswinds






And to boot, the weather was crap.

How do you americans put up with this? Sorry to be ignorant, but todays adventure made Canadian security at airports seem like childs play.

Later,

Andrew C

[UnitedFlyer]

The only thing more pathetic than a cop trying to bully you, is a security guard trying to bully you. Not to say that all cops are like this, but I have run into more than my fair share of traffic cops trying to abuse their power (their superiors always hear about it though ). There was a letter being circulated a while back if I remember correctly that stated what photographers were and were not allowed to do. Photographing planes is definatly something that everyone is allowed to do; just not everywhere, but many times cops seem to blur the lines of where we can, and where we cannot. It is too bad that the bad apples are the only ones we hear about. Oh well, c'est la vie. Just say in Canada next time . The cops are more laid back/kind it seems.

It sucks to hear that it was such a bust though. Such a pitty.

[JordanD]

I'm sorry to hear that. But I'm pretty sure photographing planes is perfectly legal.

[B757300]

In the United States, there is not a federal law, rule, regulation, etc. prohibiting airplane photography.

That said, while I haven't heard of one in DTW, some airports have local laws that prohibit it. My hometown airport (CLL) will not allow one to take pictures on airport property without permission and then only for the media. They will run you off at best and detain you for a while at worst. Thankfully I can stand across the highway and watch the aircraft land or takeoff and there isn't a dang thing the airport cops can do. I've watched them drive by and even stand out there glaring at me but so far I haven't had any non airport cops show up.

Sounds like you just ran into the typical Gestapo like cop that is a hazard of our hobby. Some are just assholes all the time and others use the excuse of Sept. 11th to get a big head and throw around their "power".

Next time come to Texas and visit DFW or IAH. I've been to both many times since Sept. 11th and never been bothered by the cops once. They've driven by me several times at IAH but usually just waved. DFW has Founder's Plaza which is dedicated to spotting.

[Airbus_A320]

Welcome to the USA, land of the paranoid!

Yea, I would stay in up in Canada too, if I lived there. No reason to come down here to get that kind of BS. Canada's awesome, especially YVR.

[ATrude777]

that happened to me in MDW.

Was inside the terminal. taking pics outside of planes leaving. out of nowhere I see a cop pull up in front of me, parked right in front of the gate I was standing at and was just staring at me in the window. then I realized someone had to have called on me. so i was reading his lips im eveil lol, and couldnt get too muhc but saw he was saying "y ai copy him there.." that type. so i said shit im not going to mess with him. so i put my camera away and walked away..scared the crap out of me.
Alex

[Tanner_J]

Come to CVG; home of the friendly police!

[JeffinDEN]

Apparantly, these "terror" threats give the right to these airport police to kick us off non-airport property (we were on the other side of the I-94 along a side road).

Just because you are outside the fence does not mean you are not still on airport property under their jurisdiction. Many, if not most airports own the property outside the fence as well, some up to a mile or two out. If that is the case where you were, then they are within their rights to tell you to stop, for what ever reason they choose.

[ryan]

Usa

From what you have said I would think if I was in your situation it would also be my first and last visit.

You could alway come across to Australia or New Zealand where the cops are not such a mob of wankers as the yank ones.

From the horror stories I have read it is always the one with the big ego and thinks he is important.

[andrew_c]

Just because you are outside the fence does not mean you are not still on airport property under their jurisdiction. Many, if not most airports own the property outside the fence as well, some up to a mile or two out. If that is the case where you were, then they are within their rights to tell you to stop, for what ever reason they choose.

I was right at a hotel, ACROSS the highway, at least 1/2 kilometer away on WICK road.

[JeffinDEN]

If you were only that far, then yes, there is a good chance you were still within the airport's jurisdiction.

[andrew_c]

If you were only that far, then yes, there is a good chance you were still within the airport's jurisdiction.

How so? If I cross the American Boarder to Canada, as long as I cross the line the US has no jurisdiction in the area.... even if its just 2 feet.

Juristiction just goes to your property line. After that (in this case) it would be the Counties jurisdiction. They can stop me all they want, but they have no authority outside of their property line (which is clearly marked at the airport, ending just before I-94 on the OTHER side of the highway).

Please explain.....

[JordanD]

Come on down to KSDF! The airport cops have never hassled me. I was pulled to the side of the road and they told me that was fine. CVG is good, because they have the viewing area, but it gets crowded at times.

[JeffinDEN]

Juristiction just goes to your property line. After that (in this case) it would be the Counties jurisdiction. They can stop me all they want, but they have no authority outside of their property line (which is clearly marked at the airport, ending just before I-94 on the OTHER side of the highway).

Is that road you crossed the border? I can't tell from the map.

As I said before, the fence has nothing to do with where the airport's control jurisdiction ends or begins. Now I don't know for sure at that airport, but as an example at ours (DEN) the airport owns the property for about a mile and a half OUTSIDE the fence. It is common practice, and YES they do have authority OUTSIDE of the fence.

[andrew_c]

Whenever I spot here at YYZ, I always carry this around. Email sent to me by the head of Airport Security. Very nice guys up here .

Mr. Colvin,
I am in receipt of your complaint to the GTAA concerning being questioned by the police while photographing incoming and outgoing aircraft.

First I would like to thank you for making the inquiry and bringing this matter to my attention.

The safety and security of the Airport is, as you can appreciate, a priority for the Peel Regional Police. You are correct when you assume that there is no law that prevents people from photographing aircraft. However as you can appreciate the events of 9/11 and many terrorist aircraft related events prior to that incident have made the security of our airports of tantamount importance.

In an effort to enhance the safety of all involved in the aircraft industry extensive research has been conducted by the Federal Government, the Airport Authorities, and the Police into how these terrorist attacks occurred and what steps can be done to prevent them from occurring in the future. As you know a considerable amount of effort and resources have been committed in the industry and by the Government to enhance the security of our nations airports.

One aspect of enhanced security is the realization that each and every act of terrorism involved planning, research and surveillance by the terrorist group involved. They, like everyone else, want to succeed in their efforts. The security systems put into place by the Airports and Federal Government would be less effective if we were to allow terrorist groups the time and luxury to observe, watch and photograph the operations of an airport and their security features.

The officers of the Peel Regional Police are under direction to be on the look out for anyone who would appear to be observing airport operations. We realize that people such as yourself have a vested interest in aircraft and photography and do not represent a threat to aviation security. We do not however know that until we stop and ask you a few questions as to who you are and what your purpose is here at the airport.

The police are completely within their rights to ask questions of anyone. It is their desire to keep the airport safe.

We apologize for the sense of embarrassment we caused you. That was not the officers intent. We do ask our officers to be polite and as unobtrusive as possible but thorough in their investigations of anyone seen photographing aircraft and airport operations.

The photographing of aircraft off airport property causes a number of people concern and not just those seized with airport security. We receive calls from the public frequently whenever someone is seen photographing aircraft from roadways or factory parking lots.

A question often asked is what does a terrorist look like? What does a criminal look like? The best answer we can give is a person who does not fit. Wrong place, wrong time. Not acting as a passenger, well wisher or employee of the airport.

Therefore while the officer may have been suspicious of your actions you satisfied him with your response and we thank you for alleviating our concerns by clearly identifying yourself and your purpose when asked. You are not always required to do so by law but your co-operation helps us to ensure the safety of this airport.

We thank you for expressing your concerns and hope this response helps you to understand why you were questioned by the police.

If I can be of any further assistance to you or you would like to discuss this issue further please feel free to call me.