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  • Clutter - what does it mean?

    Clutter, Verb. To strew or amass (objects) in a disorderly manner. Noun, a state of disorder.

    I have just been on the receiving end of another clutter rejection and wish to understand what "Clutter" means. I am loath to refer to the actual picture because it will cloud the debate.

    "Clutter" is a category that I can not understand in so much as we as aviation photographers take photographs of aircraft doing normal things and service vehicles are an integral part of normal airport life. There would be a counter debate of course to say that we want aircraft photographs with aircraft in them and service vehicles etc are mere blots on the aviation landscape.

    What does the screeners "rule book" say about clutter?
    Knowing this will allow me to self screen a picture more effectively and keep my rejection rate low
    Wallace


  • #2
    Background foreground. Are they clean? Try to get your photos as clean as possible, that being no distractions. One of the number 1 rules of photography.
    Tanner Johnson - Owner
    twenty53 Photography

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    • #3
      In the eye of a screener:
      Clutter = anything blocking the view to the aircraft

      Examples:
      - A fuel truck blocking the view to part of the aircraft.
      - The wing of one aircraft blocking the view to the main subject (typical situation on a cramped airport)

      However, there are exceptions, and that is, if a photo's main subject is not the aircraft itself, but the action around it. But that's not easy to put into a single photo. A good photog will have his advantage here, as it takes more than only a good camera

      Gerardo
      My photos on Flickr www.flickr.com/photos/geridominguez

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      • #4
        what about ground personnel, are they considered clutter?

        I like to capture a real military ramp and the people are part of that ramp. Should I leave those for my own collection?

        This as an example

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        • #5
          Just to add to what Gerardo said, here's what on the upload guidelines page...

          Obstructing Objects/Foreground Clutter
          This means that the aircraft is not fully visible due to it being obstructed by anything from long grass to catering trucks. Aircraft on their stands are almost always surrounded by service vehicles which make photography very difficult if you want the results to end up on JetPhotos, long grass is also a problem if you shooting at the perimeter-as are fences, light poles and other airport equiptment.

          Hope that helps,

          Dale

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          • #6
            For "fully visible" should be read as completely visible and unobstructed. I understand the issue a bit better now.
            I can't say that I completely agree with it but it's not my website and I don't make the rules.
            Wallace

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            • #7
              Wallace, as I explained above, under certain circumstances, we also accept such a shot, where the aircraft is partly covered by clutter, provided, this clutter adds anything to the photo. In Dave's photo, in my personal and humble opinion, the people and specially the lady, do not add enough to warrant an addition. She's randomly standing there, she could be anywhere else.

              But, it's difficult to put it into an easy to understand and easy to handle rule.

              Gerardo
              My photos on Flickr www.flickr.com/photos/geridominguez

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              • #8
                "Providing the clutter adds value to the photo," a much better definition than mine, at the end of the day I suppose it comes down a judgement call for the screener.
                Taking a second look at my rejected photo, I realise now that it does have faults and I can appreciate now why it was rejected.

                Referring to Dave's F16 picture;the woman and the guy being suited up are not looking into the picture. Both are looking at something outside the picture and not the subject (the F16.) Not to mention the two disembodied crew behind it. Please don't get me wrong by saying this, just that I have started entering club photo competitions and I am picking up what judges see when they look at a photo. The real hard part is finding fault in ones own pictures, something I'm guilty of.
                You think screeners are unfair?
                You should try competition judges!
                Wallace

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LX-A343
                  In Dave's photo, in my personal and humble opinion, the people and specially the lady, do not add enough to warrant an addition. She's randomly standing there, she could be anywhere else.

                  Gerardo
                  I totally agree about this shot, it was just an example I knew I had off the top of my head. There are shots that I perfer for my site, and then I go back through and will see what works for this site. They aren't always the same, and there's nothing wrong with that

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                  • #10
                    You can of course post other examples. Better to get advice instead of waiting for a rejection

                    Gerardo
                    My photos on Flickr www.flickr.com/photos/geridominguez

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Other exceptions could be old and rare aircrafts, where we might accept a photo even though there is a bit og "clutter" infront of the aircraft.

                      Soren
                      Regards
                      Soren Madsen

                      Spotting guide to CPH www.cphaviation.dk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by G-DALE
                        Just to add to what Gerardo said, here's what on the upload guidelines page...

                        Obstructing Objects/Foreground Clutter
                        This means that the aircraft is not fully visible due to it being obstructed by anything from long grass to catering trucks. Aircraft on their stands are almost always surrounded by service vehicles which make photography very difficult if you want the results to end up on JetPhotos, long grass is also a problem if you shooting at the perimeter-as are fences, light poles and other airport equiptment.

                        Hope that helps,

                        Dale
                        I experienced that it's up to the screener discretion wether to accept or not.

                        Like this one. I can imagine that I get a rejection for similarity of the previous shot which is a special livery of SK's A330-300 which had alot less fence in the image, but I did't.

                        [photoid=5613626]

                        @ wwshack. In related issue I figured If there's a photo you want to have reviewed one more time, appeal the photo.
                        Inactive from May 1 2009.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MaxPower
                          I experienced that it's up to the screener discretion wether to accept or not.
                          Most of the time I suppose it is, but what I posted above was only guidelines.

                          Originally posted by MaxPower
                          Like this one. I can imagine that I get a rejection for similarity of the previous shot which is a special livery of SK's A330-300 which had alot less fence in the image, but I did't.

                          [photoid=5613626]
                          The fence isn't actually obstructing the aircraft there though, that's why it was accepted.

                          After having a look at the other photo, I wouldn't neccesarily consider it as 'similar' myself. Although like you basically said above, all screeners are different in one way or another.

                          Cheers,

                          Dale

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by G-DALE
                            Most of the time I suppose it is, but what I posted above was only guidelines.
                            The fence isn't actually obstructing the aircraft there though, that's why it was accepted.
                            After having a look at the other photo, I wouldn't neccesarily consider it as 'similar' myself. Although like you basically said above, all screeners are different in one way or another.
                            Cheers,
                            Dale
                            What it's all about. ^^all screeners are different in one way or another.

                            Just so you all know, I'm not complaining about the rejected photo, just wanted to issue my situation as I found it related to the thread.
                            Inactive from May 1 2009.

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