similar rejection

[Top_Gun]

I had this rejection for soft and similar. When I check the reg there are only 2 other photo's and I didn't think the one on the ramp was all that similar.

[photoid=6023009]

- Undersharpened (Soft)
- Similar photo uploaded


I can fix the softness because I thought I should have done an extra round of USM but didn't

If the crew thinks it's similar to the one parked on the ramp I can't do anything about that, but if not I can fix the softness.

Thanks for your time.

[brianw999]

Dave,

I didn't screen it but there is about a 20 degree difference in angle of shot which a lot of screeners, myself included, would say is similar.

To be honest, the taxiing shot is nowhere near as good as the ramp shot even if you do fix the softness.

The subject of similars is currently a subject of discussion in the crew forums.

[Top_Gun]

thanks Brian, I thought the similar meant more to the composition of when/where the shot was taken. If I took 4 shots of this plane coming in to land and tried to upload the first and 4th they would be very similar or if I took a shot of the bird on the ramp at the 10 o'clock position and then again at the 7 o'clock position I would expect rejections for those.

[photoid=5678664]

This one below I wouldn't bother uploading because the only noticable difference is the logo on the tail. Pretty much everything else is the same besides dates and that slight 20 degree angle.


Similar refers to same registration, same angle/composition or same background, even if taken at different dates.

Not many different angles you can take of a plane. If you take the way you explained it, then we might as well not upload any demo team shots because they are pretty much all the exact same shots every year.(not trying to shoot the messenger)

appreciate you post

[brianw999]

You're gonna hate me for this but the two KC shots are, to my mind, quite acceptable. The angle is greater and there is a definite difference in the paint scheme with the added tail logo. I would accept them as not similar....which is where the problem arises with the similar situation. Its all a matter of how the screener applies the rule.

The JP rules for similar are this..."Similar refers to same registration, same angle/composition or same background, even if taken on different dates".

From those few words the screeners have to formulate a decision to please all. One especial problem we are getting at the moment is where a photog uploads a full view picture of an aircraft and then uploads a front end only crop of either the same picture or one taken within a very few seconds. The only difference is that one pic shows the whole aircraft, the other pic shows a part of it. This to me means two things.
1/ They are similar pics...and...
2/ It's a not particularly subtle way of ensuring that they get at least one picture in the database.

Faced with this, screeners are screening the first pic and leaving a note to each other warning of the existance of a similar in the queue. If this habit continues, and there are a few photogs known to be doing this, then having two similars in the queue at the same time may possibly lead to rejection of both whatever their quality. I should say right here that that last statement is mine, its a thought about what might happen and is not a reflection of any JP policy.
Personally, before uploading a picture I run a quick check to see if I have any pictures of the same aircraft in the database. There is also a small warning button on the upload page that tells you if you have any pics of the aircraft in the database. Click there and all your pics of that aircraft are shown.

Demo team shots ?
Now there's a can of worms to open !!

As you so rightly say, demo team manoeuvres are much the same wherever you go and the challenge is to find that "little bit different WOW factor" shot. One thing I like to see when screening these type of pics is a picture as near to perfection as possible. If the team can go to immense trouble to perfect their routine then it's almost an insult to upload a poor quality picture of them. One good thing about displays is that the aircraft are doing a whole lot more than just being on approach, taking off or taxiing.

[Alex - Spot-This !]

Great answer Brian.
My thoughts exactly !!!

Alex

[Top_Gun]

this isn't about this one picture for me, its more about future uploads. I just wanted to make that clear

Now I feel more confused because I feel the C-21 shot that was rejected was far less similar because of the backdrop. It doesn't even look like it's from the same airport.

Now the tanker shot seems so identical that even knowing you would allow it I fear others might reject it.

There seems to be more in writing on this topic, there seems to be too much grey area and screener "interpertation" of what similar means. Screeners choice I have no problem that being up to them, but just the 2 examples above your ideas of what is similar is totally different than mine.

If it was more obvious it would save both of us time, I used the link and saw the one shot I had in the DB. If the shot I was trying to upload was on the tarmac at the FBO I wouldn't have bothered. I thought the background was enough not to warrant a similar rejection which is why I uploaded it.

[brianw999]

Just a thought Dave but did you consider an appeal ?

A reasoned argument will often overcome.

[LX-A343]

Similar is quite difficult sometimes to put in clear rules. So at the end the last 10% of the decision are indeed down to personal preference.

Gerardo

[Top_Gun]

Just a thought Dave but did you consider an appeal ?

A reasoned argument will often overcome.

It's totally not about getting the shot accepted, I agree w/ you that it's borderline at best.

What I'm trying to figure out is where the limits are regarding the similar composition rejections for other uploads.

I appreciate your posts though, I can't say I had a rejection similar to this kind and that's why I'm trying to see where the limits are. I've agreed on most other similar rejections and move on.

I'm trying to understand what not to upload, and what's acceptable and from the 2 examples I've posted and thought I understood you tell me "as a screener" that my judgment is wrong....

Gerardo, there must be something you can put in to be more direct. Like if the shot is within a certain degree of the same angle than it more likely it would be rejected. 20 degrees difference seems

I don't see the same composition (aka background) in the C-21 shot where that had that marked down.

[LX-A343]

Gerardo, there must be something you can put in to be more direct. Like if the shot is within a certain degree of the same angle than it more likely it would be rejected. 20 degrees difference seems

I don't see the same composition (aka background) in the C-21 shot where that had that marked down.

My personal opinion: setting a difference ox X degrees in angle works in theory, but not in practice. We would end up in measuring angles and discussing borderlines of +/- 5° or so.

Unfortunately you seem to have forgotten to end your 2nd sentence to me, so I don't know what you mean with 20 degrees. If you meant, that 20° of difference is enough, then this would mean, that you can upload 18 photos of an aircraft parked on the ramp. That's definitely more than enough! Before you say, that's a silly thinking: we have such uploaders thinking like that, as mentioned above already.

My suggestion: If you see a borderline case in your new photos: simply upload it and that's it. What can you loose? It can only be rejected. If you don't want the rejection, use the prescreening topic in this forum.

Gerardo

[Top_Gun]

thanks guys, I don't mean to make such a big thing out of it. I just wait for the next one and try to have better judgment prior to uploading.

thanks again,

[pdeboer]

Dave, you are not making a biggie of this, and I am quite glad you posted. As already said, it is discussed in the screeners team to be have more consensus about what is similar or not. Constructive discussions as these help us to work on the consistency in our screening. So, as Gerardo already suggested, if in doubt about similars, post them here.
And my two cents on this: I consider the 2 learjets as similar, but not the two kc's

cheers, Pamela

[Top_Gun]

thanks Pam, I guess I'll upload that KC shot then