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  • Date Rejections

    A few months ago I find myself with 13 rejections for "Bad Info - Date" where I had accidentaly uploaded photos with 2007 as the year when they were actually 2008 shots. Very dissapointed after waiting 5 days for them to be screened and then rejected for such an idotic reason, I re-uploaded the batch with no comments whatsoever.

    I check my email today and findmyself again with 4 shots, rejected again for bad date, this time, they were taken a day later (24th February 2009) rather than the uploaded as 23rd February 2009.

    I made a mistake on the date but under the current Detailed Photo Upload Guidelines there is NO mention on the lines of "Photos with incorrect dates will be rejected" or "Photos with partially incomplete dates will be rejected".

    I see countless photos being added daily with dates such as "April 2009" or just "2009" and these don't get rejected, which just makes it seem its just a few certain screeners wanting to reject photos for date as from the Detailed Photo Upload Guidelines (and I will post the link here just in case: http://forums.jetphotos.net/showthread.php?t=44854) there is again, NO mention whatsoever about Bad Date Rejections or anything along the lines of it.

    Furthermore, if from day one when I made an account here and I selected NOT to upload photos with EXIF, why are you still obtaning my EXIF and checking the dates on there against the one uploaded?

    Finally, as a screener at another website, I find myself with many photos uploaded with slightly wrong info, and I usually correct such info. I understand the fact that you guys deal with a large queue, and correcting such errors as aircraft type or stopping and looking for a correct CN is just not going to happen, but why couldn't the screener who rejected my shots for bad date, just write to me on one "Hey the date is wrong you might want to look at them " the same when you forget a single category, like a business jet, a click is not very hard or time consuming, is it?

    I will quote this from Colin Parker's post under "Screening":

    Originally posted by Colin Parker
    The frustration comes (and quite understandably in my opinion) when you spend time editing a photo, watching it move rather slowly through the queue to the top only to see it rejected when you see other people upload far inferior photos successfully.
    That is exactly how you feel when you wait for days for your photos to be screened and then be rejected for such a silly thing as a bad date.

    Oh, and if you are going to ask me why I didn't post "such photos" with wrong or incomplete dates, I have been told that it would be rude to do so, but then I have been urged to please post such photos, so I still don't know what to do!

  • #2
    Hi Tomás, why wouldn't you just upload with the correct date? That would solve the problem.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by AJ View Post
      Hi Tomás, why wouldn't you just upload with the correct date? That would solve the problem.
      Hola AJ,

      Thanks for your reply. I actually am a bit of a freak in regards to dates, I usually double check dates for all of my photos but well as I said, we all make mistakes. I am just frustrated in the fact that for such a slight mistake (it was just a day off), now I have to sit, and reupload the shots (I am currently doing this as if I appeal probably I wont get them in anyways).

      I just want to know why wouldn't screeners just let you know on a separate note or even in "Screener Comments" that the date is wrong instead of rejecting all the photos with the wrong date, or reject one letting me know the date is wrong. Its just such a simple thing that shouldn't be rejected and that is why I argue with the Guidelines as there is just no mention about Bad Date rejections.

      On a personal note, isn't it worse for the overall stats to have more and more rejections than more accepted shots? I mean, there will always be rejections for the obvious shots but these types of rejections can be easily reduced by screeners just having a second or two letting users know about the problem.

      I tend to think the same for a missing category like a biz jet or a small prop instead of rejecting it as its just a click away from being right which the screener could very easily correct or fill in.

      Regards,
      Tomas.

      Comment


      • #4
        I made a mistake on the date but under the current Detailed Photo Upload Guidelines there is NO mention on the lines of "Photos with incorrect dates will be rejected" or "Photos with partially incomplete dates will be rejected".
        Date is not explicitely mentioned, but ...

        Uploads with wrong infos, which could have been easy to find using the mentioned methods above will be instantly rejected for "bad info". A guide to enter the correct infos can be found in the "General Upload Guideline".

        In addition, you brought up the issue some time back or least you jumped at us in this discussion. So you know very well, that photos will be rejected if we find out the wrong date.

        We can't correct dates during screening. And even if we could, it's simply not our job. Our job is to bite that queue of 8000+ photos. It's up to the photog to ensure, that infos and categories are complete and correct.

        So, we could leave you a note and then wait and check regularely if you really did correct the wrong dates. But alas, there are plenty of uploads with different wrong infos. So we would have to nominate one or two screeners to regularly check a queue of wrong infos. Or we go on screening and rejecting photos with wrong dates, which is what we actually do and what actually still is the best solution considering all factors.
        My photos on Flickr www.flickr.com/photos/geridominguez

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LX-A343 View Post
          In addition, you brought up the issue some time back or least you jumped at us in this discussion. So you know very well, that photos will be rejected if we find out the wrong date.

          We can't correct dates during screening. And even if we could, it's simply not our job. Our job is to bite that queue of 8000+ photos. It's up to the photog to ensure, that infos and categories are complete and correct.

          So, we could leave you a note and then wait and check regularely if you really did correct the wrong dates. But alas, there are plenty of uploads with different wrong infos. So we would have to nominate one or two screeners to regularly check a queue of wrong infos. Or we go on screening and rejecting photos with wrong dates, which is what we actually do and what actually still is the best solution considering all factors.
          Well my doubt then really is, why do people get photos with partial dates, such as "April 2009" or just "2009" constantly accepted and there is no excuse for them not knowing what date they took their photos when its such as a recent date! It is understandable for old scans and prints not to know the exact date but with the era of EXIF, all photographers can put the exact date and time for each of their photos.

          That being said, I do like to set correct dates on my photos but does it really make a difference to the viewers of my photos if it was taken a day later or a day before? I can understand the first time when I got a batch of photos with a wrong year uplodaded, but a day difference doesn't really make any difference to the viewer, as most of them don't really care about the date, or the CN or the type, they just want to look at the photo.

          As a side note, now knowing that dates can't be corrected by screeners, I still don't understand why, as a screener, you can't just tick off a category such as Biz Jet or a Turboprop, if its wrong or not placed, it just takes less than a second and would prevent lots of rejections and I am sure that someone must care about the ratio of photos accepted/rejected where there could be many more accepted photos than rejected for very slight and easily corrected mistakes.

          And I still didn't get a reply of how you are viewing the EXIF for photos when you choose not to include such details when uploading a photo.

          Regards,
          Tomas.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tomas_cubero View Post
            Well my doubt then really is, why do people get photos with partial dates, such as "April 2009" or just "2009" constantly accepted and there is no excuse for them not knowing what date they took their photos when its such as a recent date!
            Because some people who upload photos of government or military aircraft are asked by the person who let them take the photos not to display the exact date. Besides, if say a photo was taken this month, showing the date as "April 2009" is correct, whereas entering "April 9, 2009" when it was taken a day later is clearly incorrect.
            Originally posted by tomas_cubero View Post
            That being said, I do like to set correct dates on my photos but does it really make a difference to the viewers of my photos if it was taken a day later or a day before? I can understand the first time when I got a batch of photos with a wrong year uplodaded, but a day difference doesn't really make any difference to the viewer, as most of them don't really care about the date, or the CN or the type, they just want to look at the photo.
            As was mentioned before, it is your responsibility to provide us with correct information. I never check the EXIF to confirm the date is correct. However,
            if I see a photo that was previously rejected now containing a different date, I will check the EXIF and reject the photo if the date entered does not match the one in the EXIF.
            Originally posted by tomas_cubero View Post
            As a side note, now knowing that dates can't be corrected by screeners, I still don't understand why, as a screener, you can't just tick off a category such as Biz Jet or a Turboprop, if its wrong or not placed, it just takes less than a second and would prevent lots of rejections and I am sure that someone must care about the ratio of photos accepted/rejected where there could be many more accepted photos than rejected for very slight and easily corrected mistakes.
            Because if we were to do all this work for you it would promote a sense of laziness and we don't want that. Now with the queue being as long as it is I haven't seen a photo get rejected only for missing the right categories. If however it has other flaws (such as wrong info) then we will reject for categories.
            Originally posted by tomas_cubero View Post
            And I still didn't get a reply of how you are viewing the EXIF for photos when you choose not to include such details when uploading a photo.
            Can you post an example? From what I know that should not be possible...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by magic48 View Post
              As was mentioned before, it is your responsibility to provide us with correct information. I never check the EXIF to confirm the date is correct. However,
              if I see a photo that was previously rejected now containing a different date, I will check the EXIF and reject the photo if the date entered does not match the one in the EXIF.
              So if we don't select the EXIF data we will never get a bad date rejection because you can't check it?

              Comment


              • #8
                Thomas, one of the reasons we get so picky about the date being correct is that alot of our uploaders think that they can fool us when they get a reject that they think is unjustified. They then go and change the date on the photo to the next day or previous day and upload the photo again unchanged thinking that if they get a different screener they will get away with it and get it uploaded. Fact is that we can see all recent rejections of a registration and location regardless of the date.

                How many times do we need to tell you that it is YOUR duty to ensure that you upload the correct info and CATEGORIES? It's not as though we have introduced it overnight. It's always been a requirement at JP that the uploader selects the right categories, and you being a long time uploader simply needs to accept that fact, and I don't understand why you can't? We're not going to change it. It's not that we get 1 or 2 shots a day with bad info or incorrect categories, it's significantly more.

                If we started stating the fact that crew will correct all info and categories, I can categorically say that uploaders will get lazy and start loading bad data more and more. It's human nature to do that. If we get more and more bad info, the database looses accuracy, and screeners spend more and more time screeing your photos, the queue time will get even longer and longer and you will complain more and more.

                You said yourself "it takes just less than a second" to tick a box....then why is it so difficult for the uploader to not do it in the first place?

                Comment


                • #9
                  And I still didn't get a reply of how you are viewing the EXIF for photos when you choose not to include such details when uploading a photo.
                  Probably because someone is still trying to work out how that can be done ?
                  I use Opanda EXIF viewer. Right click on the image, select "View EXIF"....and if EXIF viewing has not been activated then I get the message "No EXIF information for this photograph".

                  I still don't understand why, as a screener, you can't just tick off a category such as Biz Jet or a Turboprop
                  Because it's not our job to get it right, it's yours.

                  It's a bit like the policeman who stops you for speeding. He could take the easy route and let you off ( i.e. tick the box ) and you trundle off thinking how easy that was and carry on speeding.......but he doesn't, he issues a ticket ( i.e. doesn't tick the box for you ), you get pissed off, get a fine..but you think twice about speeding in the future.

                  Yes, sometimes I'll be the policeman who lets you off and ticks the box for someone....but only if I'm the first screener and I intend to instant add because the picture has no other faults. If I intend to send for a second opinion then I'll reject for category. The next screener may well tick the box and add the picture and that's how we get a reasonable spread of decisions. If I do add a tick for someone then I'll leave a note to the photog to be more careful in future and leave a "warning to screeners" note that can be seen by the screeners on future uploads that I have done this.
                  You could upload the most perfect picture known to man...but if that screener warning exists showing that you've been advised once and you fail to add a category again then I'll reject for that.
                  If you're unsure of the validity of a category then leave a note to the screeners to that effect and why you have added or missed that category. We're happy to act on that because it proves that you haven't just been lazy. Don't think though that this applies to cargo, small prop or bizjet categories. Those are pretty obvious.

                  I've been screening now for just over a year and have found that the process is robust, sound and generally fair. The screeners have the ability to communicate via notes when screening and regular screener notes on a first screener acceptance include...

                  "please tick bizjet if accepted", "marginal soft ?", "contrast ?", "horizon ?"

                  ...basically, we communicate. We try to accept rather than reject but when you get down to the base requirements of an uploading photographer it all comes back down to......

                  ...it's YOUR responsibility to get it right.
                  If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by arjenp View Post
                    So if we don't select the EXIF data we will never get a bad date rejection because you can't check it?
                    Possibly ? ......but human nature would make me wonder why and maybe look into pics a little closer if I thought there was an underhanded reason ?

                    Not including EXIF also makes giving forum advice difficult.

                    ...and date rejections are actually very rare.
                    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Off-course, the correct info has to be added by the photografer himself, but as we are all humans, a mistake can happen.

                      Otherwise.......I had some pics accepted on JP with wrong categories ticked. A screeners comment "I corrected the categories for you. next time it's a rejection".
                      Very nice and well appreciated.

                      It's a matter of give and take.
                      If you upload many photo's (I upload about 40 or so a week)the screeners wil know your name, and I think they reject earlier if they see you are not learning from your mistakes.
                      BTW; why do some people hide the EXIF data?
                      I've received some very useful advices from screeners, where I went wrong; just by checking my EXIF-data.


                      Regards

                      Freek
                      Last edited by wrxflyer; 2009-04-13, 15:57.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wrxflyer View Post
                        Off-course, the correct info has to be added by the photografer himself, but as we are all humans, a mistake can happen.

                        Otherwise.......I had some pics accepted on JP with wrong categories ticked. A screeners comment "I corrected the categories for you. next time it's a rejection".
                        Very nice and well appreciated.

                        It's a matter of give and take.
                        If you upload many photo's (I upload about 50 or so a week)the screeners wil know your name, and I think they reject earlier if they see you are not learning from your mistakes.
                        BTW; why do some people hide the EXIF data?
                        I've received some very useful advices from screeners, where I went wrong; just by checking my EXIF-data.


                        Regards

                        Freek
                        Freek, your absolutely right!
                        I got photos rejected for categories but a screener added a categorie on a BBJ shot of me.
                        I never understood since the day that I knew what EXIF was why people(even screeners) hide it. In my opinion it's a commitment towards other photogravers so that they canlook what kind of settings are used, for example in night shots. Just to help the other.
                        Last edited by arjenp; 2009-04-13, 12:09. Reason: some bad english as usual;)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wrxflyer View Post
                          BTW; why do some people hide the EXIF data?
                          I've received some very useful advices from screeners, where I went wrong; just by checking my EXIF-data.


                          Regards

                          Freek
                          Sometimes in some of my pictures I have to hide the exif data and I hide the actual date (i.e. I just put down the month and year) because I was allowed to take a picture from x location where I could get the person who let me through in trouble.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I completely understand the frustration that you are going through Tomas, but I also understand the massive job that the screeners are doing. There just simply isn't enough time to go through all the data mistakes to fix them up. However, would the following "compromise" be suitable (and please note that this is a suggestion from a photographer and I am not speaking on behalf of Jetphotos.net):

                            If there is bad info/data for a photo, would there be a way for screeners to reject it but then have a way to correct the info without having to re-upload the shot, and then have it re-screened in a similar time frame to a hot photo? It could be similar to the appeal process, but with an acknowledgement that the info was incorrect.

                            I have had a couple rejected because I forgot to tick the "cargo" category, and as has been said if that is all that is wrong with the upload, then it is an easy fix.

                            Again, these are my own opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of JP.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by g.forwood View Post
                              If there is bad info/data for a photo, would there be a way for screeners to reject it but then have a way to correct the info without having to re-upload the shot, and then have it re-screened in a similar time frame to a hot photo? It could be similar to the appeal process, but with an acknowledgement that the info was incorrect.

                              I have had a couple rejected because I forgot to tick the "cargo" category, and as has been said if that is all that is wrong with the upload, then it is an easy fix.

                              Again, these are my own opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of JP.
                              I completely agree with you, as I've said, some rejections are easily enough fixed and instead of making us go through the entire process of reuploading a shot, a quick appeal with the correct info/categories would be very convenient. I am sure lots of uploaders would find this very useful and again, it would make good the queue in the long run, less photos being reuploaded for silly mistakes, therefore reducing the queue size, reducing unncessary rejections and having a higher acceptance ratio overall for the shots.

                              Back to the date issue, well I never upload with EXIF which technically means that my photos, once uploaded and online, should be completely free of EXIF data. You can prove this is not happening as you can just save any of my jpgs and it shows all EXIF info under any reader. That just means that the EXIF option use uploaders get is completely obsolete, it either should work or not work.

                              If you may ask why I am so picky for EXIF, is that it can contain sometimes information I'd rather people not see (like Alberto states) and should be the leading reason why JP decided to place an EXIF toggle though you can see it really doesn't work.

                              I feel like uploading completely EXIF free jpgs until this is corrected.

                              It also has caught my attention that when I have uploaded mistaken dates, a screener picks up a sequence and rejects it for bad date, then a few hours later, a different screener accepts it, making it seem bad date rejections are not standardized as a rejection reason.

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