display teams are no special scheme!!

[Paul Stam]

A photo I made of the Red Arrows was rejected. Reason: display teams are no special scheme!!

But other photos I made of the Turkish Stars and Patrouille de France are accepted and I gave these photos the categorie: special scheme!!

The screeners disagree. But what is the rule?

I have several photos in the que of dislay teams and I shall remove the categorie: special scheme

[seahawk]

Dispaly Teams like the Red Arrows, Thunderbirds, Blue Impulse, Frecce Tricolori, etc. are not to be marked as special scheme. The reason is that the scheme, while being different to the usual Air Force colors, is not special for the display team.

Single plane demo teams, like the Dutch F-16 dispaly are spical schemes, as the scheme is unique.

However I would appeal the rejection, if it was the only rejection reason.

[Paul Stam]

So the rule special scheme is not clear. I uploaded the whole display team.
And as you said they have a different from the usual Hawks of the RAF.
So they have a special scheme.

I find the reason to reject such photos a little bit childless.

[Paul Stam]

After my appeal the photo is accepted. (Thanks) But I stick to my opinion that a display team has a special scheme.

End of discussion

[seahawk]

Thx, for the info Paul. I will never again accept an appeal and take the effort to correct a category afterwards.

The up-load guidelines have been pretty clear about that for a long time:

a) Military Aircraft The "Special Scheme" category should usually not be used for a special sticker or marking on military planes. This means kill markings (like flags on the intakes) or slightly enlarged unit badges on the wing, these do not count as a special scheme.

Flight demonstration teams like the Red Arrows, USAF Thunderbirds etc. should NOT be selected as special scheme, as these are the standard paint scheme within the units.

However, planes with large special tail markings that are unique within the fleet should be selected. For example the Boss Birds with full colour markings within USN squadrons, or British unit celebration tails. Or the German "Monster" Tornado...

[Paul Stam]

Sorry, I made you angry. But I am also angry too, when I read the reason for rejection. Nowadays you had to wait for a week to see your photos are accepted or rejected. And I know that the screeners do their best to screen many photos. Or is it that only screeners had the right to get angry???

Most of the photos that are rejected of mine, I don't appeal.

But to reject a photo of a display-team with the wrong categorie, after a week in the queu, is very, very frustrating.

That's why I reacted maybe to heavy.

I read the rules and saw that you are right. I had read these rules a long time ago and I did not remember that there was such a rule. Through my experience I thought that I know al the rules. But it seems that I was wrong.

Nevertheless some of my photos of dislpay-teams were accepeted with the category: special scheme.

[seahawk]

And because of that I accepted the appeal and asked an admin to remove the wrong category. Clicking "reject" on the appeal would have been much less work for the team.

[Paul Stam]

I have been thinking. Why is this rule so complicated

a) Military Aircraft The "Special Scheme" category should usually not be used for a special sticker or marking on military planes. This means kill markings (like flags on the intakes) or slightly enlarged unit badges on the wing, these do not count as a special scheme.

Flight demonstration teams like the Red Arrows, USAF Thunderbirds etc. should NOT be selected as special scheme, as these are the standard paint scheme within the units.

However, planes with large special tail markings that are unique within the fleet should be selected. For example the Boss Birds with full colour markings within USN squadrons, or British unit celebration tails. Or the German "Monster" Tornado..


Make the rule as follows: Every aircraft with a colour scheme that is not standard has a special scheme.

It is much easier. There will be no misunderstandings and no frustrated- and angry people.

[magic48]

Make the rule as follows: Every aircraft with a colour scheme that is not standard has a special scheme.

It is much easier. There will be no misunderstandings and no frustrated- and angry people.

Actually I find our existing guideline much better as it points out examples which makes things quite clear.

[Moose135]

Make the rule as follows: Every aircraft with a colour scheme that is not standard has a special scheme.

That's what the rule is now - and for the Thunderbirds, white aircraft with red and blue trim is standard. For the Red Arrows, overall red is the standard scheme. Would you consider aircraft of the 89th Airlift Wing (Special Air Mission) "special scheme" because they are different than other USAF aircraft? It's their everyday paint scheme.

[seahawk]

I find it hard to imagine a standard colour scheme for one Air Force. Just imagine the French Mirage F1 fleet which had 3 different colour schemes at the same time. Which is special, which is not?

At the moment it is simple. A military aircraft has a special scheme if it has a unique colour scheme in the Air Force and in the unit it is assigned and has been given a large intentionally special marking. I find that the easiest way for military aircraft.

[Paul Stam]

That's what the rule is now - and for the Thunderbirds, white aircraft with red and blue trim is standard. For the Red Arrows, overall red is the standard scheme.

The colours of these displayteams are not standard for the USAF and the RAF while the aircraft they are flying with are "owned" by the USAF and RAF. So they have a special scheme.

[brianw999]

Paul, for goodness sake...

a) Military Aircraft The "Special Scheme" category should usually not be used for a special sticker or marking on military planes. This means kill markings (like flags on the intakes) or slightly enlarged unit badges on the wing, these do not count as a special scheme.

Flight demonstration teams like the Red Arrows, USAF Thunderbirds etc. should NOT be selected as special scheme, as these are the standard paint scheme within the units.

However, planes with large special tail markings that are unique within the fleet should be selected. For example the Boss Birds with full colour markings within USN squadrons, or British unit celebration tails. Or the German "Monster" Tornado..

.....is the requirement of this site for the use of military special scheme.

Make the rule as follows: Every aircraft with a colour scheme that is not standard has a special scheme.

....is your version of what you want.

Now, which rule do you think is going to be applied by the crew when screening ?

[Paul Stam]

Brian, you asked me:
Now, which rule do you think is going to be applied by the crew when screening ?

I think the rule of JP.

But my point is that when you are uploading photos, I don't read the rules all the time. There are so many rules.

When I choose for special scheme, I thought that was right.

And is very frustrating that after a week waiting a photo is rejected for wrong category. Is it so important that display-teams have no special scheme, in your opinion.

It is right to reject a photo with the wrong reg. or c/n etc.

But in this case?????

[brianw999]

But my point is that when you are uploading photos, I don't read the rules all the time. There are so many rules.

.....and this is one of the reasons some photogs get unnecessary rejections.

And Paul, you haven't been entirely honest with us in this thread.

I've just taken a look at your rejects. There are two shots of the "Reds" in action. Both have been rejected for category...but also dark/under. If there had been no other fault then most screeners would deselect the wrong category and accept the picture. In your case you need to reprocess for the exposure, so the screener has also added the category issue for you to deal with.