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  • BA 747 reaches 825mph over ground

    Due to unusually strong easterly winds a number of flights exceeded 800mph over ground, with a 747 setting a new record around 825mph. The JFK-LHR run was done in under five hours.
    Originally posted by CNN
    A spokesperson for BA said: "We always prioritise safety over speed records, but our highly trained pilots made the most of the conditions to get customers back to London well ahead of time."
    What sort of highly trained skills are involved here. Seems like none.

  • #2
    That statement is a joke. Sure I believe that it was the customers what they had in mind when they did that.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #3
      There was a news item last night on TV here in the UK where the jet-stream was reported as being likely to exceed 200 mph as a result of the storm currently over the UK at the time. I remember thinking at the time that airlines flying west to east over the North Atlantic were in for some dramatically shortened flight times.

      The skilful flying bit comes into play when you transition into and out of the jetstream.

      https://www.itv.com/news/2020-02-09/...o-storm-ciara/
      Last edited by brianw999; 2020-02-10, 12:21.
      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

      Comment


      • #4
        Seems to me that passengers might not find it convenient to arrive well ahead of time, as many may have to wait at the airport for friends or family to retrieve them, or they might have to wait for hotel reservations, and so forth. Yeah; what a joke!
        CarolW
        Broom navigator

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        • #5
          [QUOTE=Evan;n1080431]Due to unusually strong easterly winds a number of flights exceeded 800mph over ground, with a 747 setting a new record around 825mph. The JFK-LHR run was done in under five hours.

          Should be written "unusually strong westerly winds", catching the Jet-Stream when flying west to east. Always indicate where the wind is coming from.
          Ike

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          • #6
            Can anyone here determine the British Airways tail registration of the 747 that made this flight? Thanks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Rick G View Post
              Can anyone here determine the British Airways tail registration of the 747 that made this flight? Thanks.
              It was G-CIVP

              https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/b...-speed-record/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Evan View Post
                What sort of highly trained skills are involved here. Seems like none.
                You would want to be a little careful turning into a strong tailwind to compensate for the lost airspeed.
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post

                  You would want to be a little careful turning into a strong tailwind to compensate for the lost airspeed.
                  Well, actually, not exactly turning, but this is something that you HAVE to take into account.
                  One thing is having the airplane moving in different directions within an air mass that moves consistently at the same velocity (speed and direction) over ground.
                  A different thing is moving through an air mass where different part of that mass move at different speeds relative to the ground. Depending on the nature of this variation, the phenomena is known as chop, turbulence, wind gradient, gusts, thermals, mountain waves, gravity waves (I recently learned about those) or windshear (and I may be missing some). Some of those can be dangerous.

                  I don't know much about these jet streams, but if the boundary is narrow marked it could certainly be dangerous. If you are flying in a layer of air that has about zero wind and suddenly move into the next layer that has a 200-knots wind coming from your back, you can loose a bunch of knots in the process and stall spin crash burn die.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post

                    You would want to be a little careful turning into a strong tailwind to compensate for the lost airspeed.
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18cuvltgD0

                    But you've heard it here first.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      I don't know much about these jet streams, but if the boundary is narrow marked it could certainly be dangerous. If you are flying in a layer of air that has about zero wind and suddenly move into the next layer that has a 200-knots wind coming from your back, you can loose a bunch of knots in the process and stall spin crash burn die.
                      What I do know about Jetstreams is that they exist almost every day (some are stronger than others), but we don't have all that many airliners falling out of the sky in a relentless pull up because they lost airspeed by hitting a Jetstream. (Sadly, there is the occasional one that does fall out during relentless pull ups, until we got MCAS and fell out of the sky from relentless push overs).

                      There is that one video of the guy stalling out when he turned into a tailwind, though. St. Donald the Wrench was moved by that incident (me too, I have this fear of falling and warped concept that airspeed management is good. (and wish I knew French)).
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 3WE View Post

                        You would want to be a little careful turning into a strong tailwind to compensate for the lost airspeed.
                        Hm. First of all let me take it exactly as Evan wrote it when he started the topic. 825 mph, and he did not confuse that with meter per hour or nautical miles per hour. I trust him.
                        825 mph are 1320 kilometer per hour which are a little bit more than 712 nautical miles per hour.

                        Anyone here who ever sat in a 747-400 simulator? Well. I have just found a source which gives us a normal cruise speed for the 744 of M .855 . Yes, if you pull the handbrake. As I know my avatar, that's one of the fastest subsonic passenger jets on this planet. That theoretically includes the possibility that under certain circumstances, you come close to or you even produce a sonic boom,
                        in a 747.
                        I once have tried to calculate the speed of sound, measured in nautical miles per hour. 712 Ground Speed is clearly faster than that, if I haven't miscalculated it, so someone outside the 747 should have heard a sonic boom. I don't think it is a complete legend.

                        The 747-400 is good for clearly more than 600, that's what I've heard. And with a tailwind, you'll never get an overspeed warning. Imagine your car is being pushed, and you shift the gear to neutral, the engine is running normal cruise speed.
                        Still not quite comparable to a jet engine. But it depends on the strength of the one who pushes. Theoretically you can get very very fast. The wind is behind you, so, no brake force in front of the aircraft. I don't know where the limit is in LH-B744, but with a decent tailwind, 600 should be no problem.
                        Jubilees do count. Type 747-100, inauguration flight: February 1969.
                        And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                        LH is member in the 747 club since April 1970.
                        Aviation enthusiast, since more than 30 years with home airport EDDL.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
                          The 747-400 is good for clearly more than 600, that's what I've heard. And with a tailwind, you'll never get an overspeed warning. Imagine your car is being pushed, and you shift the gear to neutral, the engine is running normal cruise speed.
                          Still not quite comparable to a jet engine. But it depends on the strength of the one who pushes. Theoretically you can get very very fast. The wind is behind you, so, no brake force in front of the aircraft. I don't know where the limit is in LH-B744, but with a decent tailwind, 600 should be no problem.
                          Are you serious? This is a very bad analogy There is NOTHING pushing you from behind when flying with a tailwind no matter how strong, there is no wind behind you, there reduction in the "break force in front of the aircraft".

                          In an airplane the relative wind is ALWAYS coming from straight ahead, no matter the wind direction and speed. If you are flying with a true airspeed of 600 MPH, you will have 600 MPH of relative wind right in your face with the "break force in front of the plane" that corresponds to 600 knots, no matter the wind direction and speed.

                          Now, if that mass of air in which you are flying through at 600 MPH is itself moving about the Earth at a given speed and direction, then, in addition (cue: sum) of the 600 MPH right ahead, you will be also moving with that mass of air without that affecting anything of the wind speed and direction perceived by the airplane. The airplane feels forces in function of its motion THROUGH the air, not for its motion WITH the air.

                          So what is the limit? There is no limit for the airplane itself. The limit is for how strong the jetstream can actually get in nature. But if you have a 1000 MPH jetstream, the 747 can be happily flying at 600 MPH through it and making either 1600 MPH or 400 MPH backwards over the ground without feeling any aerodynamic difference whatsoever.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post

                            Hm. First of all let me take it exactly as Evan wrote it when he started the topic. 825 mph, and he did not confuse that with meter per hour or nautical miles per hour. I trust him.
                            825 mph are 1320 kilometer per hour which are a little bit more than 712 nautical miles per hour.

                            Anyone here who ever sat in a 747-400 simulator? Well. I have just found a source which gives us a normal cruise speed for the 744 of M .855 . Yes, if you pull the handbrake. As I know my avatar, that's one of the fastest subsonic passenger jets on this planet. That theoretically includes the possibility that under certain circumstances, you come close to or you even produce a sonic boom,
                            in a 747.
                            I once have tried to calculate the speed of sound, measured in nautical miles per hour. 712 Ground Speed is clearly faster than that, if I haven't miscalculated it, so someone outside the 747 should have heard a sonic boom. I don't think it is a complete legend.

                            The 747-400 is good for clearly more than 600, that's what I've heard. And with a tailwind, you'll never get an overspeed warning. Imagine your car is being pushed, and you shift the gear to neutral, the engine is running normal cruise speed.
                            Still not quite comparable to a jet engine. But it depends on the strength of the one who pushes. Theoretically you can get very very fast. The wind is behind you, so, no brake force in front of the aircraft. I don't know where the limit is in LH-B744, but with a decent tailwind, 600 should be no problem.
                            Now THAT is funny! SONIC BOOM!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
                              Hm. First of all let me take it exactly as Evan wrote it when he started the topic. 825 mph, and he did not confuse that with meter per hour or nautical miles per hour. I trust him.
                              825 mph are 1320 kilometer per hour which are a little bit more than 712 nautical miles per hour.

                              Anyone here who ever sat in a 747-400 simulator? Well. I have just found a source which gives us a normal cruise speed for the 744 of M .855 . Yes, if you pull the handbrake. As I know my avatar, that's one of the fastest subsonic passenger jets on this planet. That theoretically includes the possibility that under certain circumstances, you come close to or you even produce a sonic boom,
                              in a 747.
                              I once have tried to calculate the speed of sound, measured in nautical miles per hour. 712 Ground Speed is clearly faster than that, if I haven't miscalculated it, so someone outside the 747 should have heard a sonic boom. I don't think it is a complete legend.

                              The 747-400 is good for clearly more than 600, that's what I've heard. And with a tailwind, you'll never get an overspeed warning. Imagine your car is being pushed, and you shift the gear to neutral, the engine is running normal cruise speed.
                              Still not quite comparable to a jet engine. But it depends on the strength of the one who pushes. Theoretically you can get very very fast. The wind is behind you, so, no brake force in front of the aircraft. I don't know where the limit is in LH-B744, but with a decent tailwind, 600 should be no problem.


                              Oh dear........oh dear, oh dear, oh dear !

                              Please tell me that this is a joke or a bad translation
                              Last edited by brianw999; 2020-02-28, 10:46.
                              If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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