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  • Airbus vs. Boeing / US vs Others

    just came back from a trip to Dubai. All in, about 30 hours aboard 2 A350-1000 operated by Qatar Airways. yeah, im a spoiled bitch and flew in biz. not one US airline i've flown in my entire flying life spanning 4 decades can touch the toenails of qatar's service. i mean, holy shit! a crew dedicated to making customers happy, none of the bullshit about "while we are here primarily for your safety..."

    as for the aircraft, i do realize that interiors are very much up to the airline purchasing the ac, but i just feel more comfortable aboard airbi--at least the newer ones. qatar's 3 exterior cameras viewable on your IFE screen are a very nice touch.


  • #2
    Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
    just came back from a trip to Dubai. All in, about 30 hours aboard 2 A350-1000 operated by Qatar Airways. yeah, im a spoiled bitch and flew in biz. not one US airline i've flown in my entire flying life spanning 4 decades can touch the toenails of qatar's service. i mean, holy shit! a crew dedicated to making customers happy, none of the bullshit about "while we are here primarily for your safety..."

    as for the aircraft, i do realize that interiors are very much up to the airline purchasing the ac, but i just feel more comfortable aboard airbi--at least the newer ones. qatar's 3 exterior cameras viewable on your IFE screen are a very nice touch.
    Forgive the obvious question, but if you were going to DXB, why not EK?

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    • #3
      i'm a miles whore. qatar is part of oneworld.

      Comment


      • #4
        ah yeah, how could i forget? one thing that was pleasantly missing from the onboard announcements was how "FA's are primarily here for your safety..." get over it. while i wont go so far as to say FAs are flying servers, that is what they do 97% of the time. seat belt check. arm/disarm doors. and that's about it. in the exceptionally rare (thankfully) event of an evacuation, they may serve some good. but enough about their primary job garbage. that and the evolution of the laws/regs that give them way too much power for which they clearly have not been trained to handle, has led to the sad state of service amongst US airlines.

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        • #5
          It’s really quite simple. If you are flying east from the UK to the Middle East and beyond then use any of the middle eastern airlines, with the exception of Saudia. I have had wonderful service on Emirates and Etihad with lower prices than BA. The Etihad business class experience was unforgettable.
          If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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          • #6
            The jetphotos forum again has a problem. I am not able to edit the words which I have written.
            The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
            The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
            And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
            This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
              ah yeah, how could i forget? one thing that was pleasantly missing from the onboard announcements was how "FA's are primarily here for your safety..." get over it. while i wont go so far as to say FAs are flying servers, that is what they do 97% of the time. seat belt check. arm/disarm doors. and that's about it. in the exceptionally rare (thankfully) event of an evacuation, they may serve some good. but enough about their primary job garbage. that and the evolution of the laws/regs that give them way too much power for which they clearly have not been trained to handle, has led to the sad state of service amongst US airlines.
              As a flight attendant for the last 10 years I take a great deal of offence at your post. Your attitude is simply disgusting. We work damned hard to make sure you are able to get your flight in the first place. We have to be trained and qualified in many different aspects and have to re-train annually. Yes, we are trained in emergency procedures but we also have significant first aid training to try and save lives. Having had to give a passenger CPR in front of an entire Airbus A320, I am very thankful for the training we have received. If we were not there you would not be taking your fancy business class flight. I'm so glad our paths will probably never cross on board an aircraft.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                a crew dedicated to making customers happy, none of the bullshit about "while we are here primarily for your safety..."
                Funny that you mention it, because 14 CFR 121.391 Flight attendants mentions nothing about their non-safety roles, and 14 CFR 121.467 Flight attendant duty period limitations and rest requirements: Domestic, flag, and supplemental operations states under the definition of Flight attendant "... whose duties include but are not necessarily limited to cabin-safety-related responsibilities." So while they're not limited to being there for their safety, there is zero requirement to give stellar service. In fact, they could shake a diet coke before giving it to you and they wouldn't run afoul of regulations.


                No amount of training (short of firearms training) will prepare anyone to deal with entitled pricks who feel like buying the cheapest fare entitles them to behave like Ernest of Hanover and get praise for their performance. There have been instances of gross misconduct on the FA's part, and it's been recognized and solved. But these days the majority of folks seem to complain that their $100 BA ticket on row 76 doesn't get them Four Seasons levels of catering.


                Glad I tend to fly airlines where people usually don't go full Karen because they weren't spoon fed the finest Antarctic Bluefin Salmon Caviar with 24K gold plated spoons.
                [SIGNATURE GOES HERE]

                Felipe Garcia

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                  ah yeah, how could i forget? one thing that was pleasantly missing from the onboard announcements was how "FA's are primarily here for your safety..." get over it. while i wont go so far as to say FAs are flying servers, that is what they do 97% of the time. seat belt check. arm/disarm doors. and that's about it. in the exceptionally rare (thankfully) event of an evacuation, they may serve some good. but enough about their primary job garbage. that and the evolution of the laws/regs that give them way too much power for which they clearly have not been trained to handle, has led to the sad state of service amongst US airlines.
                  Seriously ?

                  This is just a total lack of the most basic respect for any people working, on any position. Sad.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    TeeVee Reading those words really disgust me. Flight Attendants ARE on board for your and everyone on board safety! On board service is for sure an important part of the job, but it's always in second place. If every flight goes smoothly is thanks to their dedication and training, even if you don't see it. Emergencies can happen in every moment even when you are eating your fancy business class meal and FAs will be there to save your life. It's very sad that someone who is a frequent flyer like you treat them as just servers with a total disrespect of their duties


                    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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                    • #11
                      Dear flight attendants. I totally get that you take offense with the way TeeVee presented the subject. Now, don't go to the other extreme.
                      Of course that you are there for safety too, and if I have to choose between a light attendant that has an excellent customer service but knows crap about safety, and another one with a crap customer service but that is an expert and super professional and disciplined in checking that the doors are armed/unarmed, working safely with open doors, getting the cabin ready and secured for take off and landing, pre-flight safety briefing, emergency procedures, CRM, first aid, firefighting, survival, etc... I take the safety professional EVRY DAY.

                      But does it need to be one thing OR the other? Why not BOTH?

                      Note that TeeVee was not talking about "special" incidents where you have to deal with rude passengers, but everyday service experience.
                      You are not only a customer-facing employee, but perhaps the category of employee that interacts most with the customer and the one that has the greatest direct influence of the customer perception of the brand. Ensuring a great customer experience should be a central part of your work.

                      That 14 CFR doesn't even mention anything other than safety in regards with the FA functions? Well, maybe that's because 14 CFR doesn't deal with anything but safety. Period.
                      Do you know what other things are not in 14 CFR? Minimum number of lavatories, cleanness of the seats, seat pitch (as long as it doesn't impair evacuation), provisions against serving warm Coke, regulations about waiting times in calls when trying to talk with customer service, and a long list of etceteras. Maybe all that should be regulated instead of leaving it at the mercy of the powers of the free market?

                      Or will any of the you say that the flight attendants in the middle-eastern airlines do not have safety in their job descriptions?

                      Maybe it is time for you (and your managers, and the CEOs) to read Moments of Truth, by Jan Carlzon (former CEO of SAS).

                      There is a reason for the difference of perception of customer experience between different airlines, and the behavior of the flight attendants is not a minor part of that. Your work is CENTRAL for safety and is ALSO CENTRAL for quality. Assume it (and I realize that, in general, it is more the fault of the managers than it is of the flight attendants).

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        That 14 CFR doesn't even mention anything other than safety in regards with the FA functions? Well, maybe that's because 14 CFR doesn't deal with anything but safety. Period.
                        Do you know what other things are not in 14 CFR? Minimum number of lavatories, cleanness of the seats, seat pitch (as long as it doesn't impair evacuation), provisions against serving warm Coke, regulations about waiting times in calls when trying to talk with customer service, and a long list of etceteras. Maybe all that should be regulated instead of leaving it at the mercy of the powers of the free market?
                        Simple, an airline ticket entitles you to one thing, the carriage between point A and point B. That is literally the airline's business: the carriage of people and cargo between point A and point B. You get on the plane at point A, pop a xanax, wake up at point B, at this point the airline has fulfilled its end of the contract. The ticket does not include IFE, a butler who waves a palm tree over you for 30 mins so you don't get hot, nor bottomless mimosas. It is not an entrance to Oscar's Flying Restaurant and Tabern.


                        If Qatar decides their business model is a premium service model, with unlimited Chivas 21, and hand fed Anctartic Bluefin Salmon Caviar with Breton crackers, that is their prerogative, and they are free to cater to that clientele. Their flight attendants are hired and trained to give a service level that is expected of the airline.

                        If you book Qatar under that expectation and receive service that is on par with that of Allegiant, feel free to air your grievances to customer service and ask for a refund, I would too.

                        That is not British Airways' offered service. That is not TUI's, Thomas Cook, Norwegian, Spirit, etc. Feel free to send them an email and let them know you believe their airlines are shit compared to Qatar. But don't take it out on the flight attendants, who work their asses off so people can fly in relative comfort and are often mediators between adults acting like kindergarteners. They didn't decide to end alcohol sales (AA, WN), they don't decide you don't get beluga breast cordon bleu on brioche bun sandwiches for inflight meals, they don't decide to serve coke over Pepsi. Those are all corporate decisions, and complaints should go to management. If you need to disparage an employee, take it out on the people whose job is to sign off on that, people like Alan Joyce, Scott Kirby, etc.
                        [SIGNATURE GOES HERE]

                        Felipe Garcia

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Felipe Garcia View Post
                          But don't take it out on the flight attendants, who work their asses off so people can fly in relative comfort and are often mediators between adults acting like kindergarteners. They didn't decide to end alcohol sales (AA, WN), they don't decide you don't get beluga breast cordon bleu on brioche bun sandwiches for inflight meals, they don't decide to serve coke over Pepsi. Those are all corporate decisions, and complaints should go to management. If you need to disparage an employee, take it out on the people whose job is to sign off on that, people like Alan Joyce, Scott Kirby, etc.
                          I agree with that, as I think I made clear in my previous post.

                          Now, if you guys think that providing as a good customer experience as you reasonably can within the reality of your airline's policy is not part of your job, then you don't understand anything about being a customer-facing worker in any business.

                          But that would be still the fault of the management who selects, hires, trains, and eventually terminates the jobs of each of the flight attendants, and not of the flight attendants themselves.
                          Company culture is always more powerful than individual skills or personalities of the workers, for the good and for the bad. Because individuals that are not compatible with the company culture either become compatible or stop working for the company. EVEN IN THOSE CASES WHERE THE INDIVIDAUL IS BETTER THAN THE COMPANY CULTURE.

                          In a cheap airline like Southwest, the flight attendants and check-in and gate agents are in general more friendly, happy, empathic and proactive than in American, United or Delta. And that is not because they hire their flight attendants from a different universe or because the pax are paying more for a better service.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i'm not going to respond to every post in detail. having flown close to 2,000,000 miles flown as a passenger on just AA, and add to that probably another 300,000 on other airlines, i am qualified to give my opinion. you don't like it? TFB.

                            i've seen FA's do just about everything, including making repeated announcements begging for a medically trained pax to volunteer and help them with a sick or dead pax--clearly, FA's are not all that trained in first aid--basic at best. which is fine by me. i dont expect them to be any more trained. i've seen them break-up fist fights and separate brawling couples who's marriage/love-affair blew up mid-flight. i've seen them lose their shit over the simplest request. thankfully, i've never seen them act in a real plane-wide emergency, but i imagine most would do a bang-up job. when boeing bobby gave me a tour of Atlas' training facility, i watched an FA training session from out in the hall, well, more like listened to it, anyway. and yes, i've seen them be fantastic, nice, professional, courteous etc etc. i've given out more AA "applause tickets" (coupons they can submit to management, for a chance to win cash or some other prize from AA) than most people on this forum will ever see in their lifetimes. i've written countless letters to airline management over the wonderful, over the top service i have received on occasion. and yeah, ONE TIME, i had to write to management about an FA that is frankly lucky i didn't beat the shit out of him for his stank attitude and needless threats to me.

                            i have had many FA's recognize me from a single flight i took with them months prior and welcome me back. i am a professional traveler. i understand the stress FAs are under and the shit they deal with every day. i sympathize with them over the conditions created by greedy wall street a-holes and incompetent managers. but none of that is an excuse for shit treatment of passengers that have done and said nothing wrong.

                            as most of you know, a lifetime ago, i spent 15 years working as a paramedic in nyc's 911 system. it was and probably still is, a truly thankless job. from patients and their family members and friends, to management and the public. yet, despite being treated like shit for the most part, i didnt take my frustrations out on my customers (patients) or their family members. i may have told a bystander or two to insert something in a particular orifice though. my job was to save lives, care for the sick and injured, and transport them to hsopitals, not make people happy. yet, making people happy, or at least trying to, is part of caring.

                            so think of it this way: pax are harassed from the moment they enter an airport: ridiculous bag fees; surly check-in agents; stupid, intrusive (ineffective) security screening; ass-raping prices of everything one might want or need to buy in an airport; crowded gate areas; gate-crashing pax that think if they board first they will arrive sooner or some shit; the ever-shrinking airplane seat; clownishly small bathrooms; elbows in their sides; seat-backs on their knees, and then? a haggard flight attendant that has spent way too many years flying and is only interested in catching a few winks, yelling or barking orders at them while threatening to have the police called and lifetime bans.

                            is it any wonder air rage has been on the rise?

                            finally, if some of you here are FAs for US airlines, well, i feel sorry for you. i really do. but nothing changes the fact that not a single US airline i've flown (aside from some of the ULCCs, i think i've flown them all) can hold a candle to some of the foreign airlines. this is why US airlines are never rated as the best in any worldwide rating. yeah, most of it is about corporate greed, but as Gabe so smartly pointed out, each FA needs to recognize that they really are the face of the company.

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