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  • Airline (dis)service.

    This rant happens to be against United, but I am sure it could be the same with any other airline.

    We have 5 tickets to go to Buenos Aires (ELP-IAH-EZE / EZE-IAH-ELP)
    The outbound leg was originally scheduled for June 30. In addition to the original tickets, we then paid an upgrade to Premium Economy. First time that I do that, since I feel quite bad having to pay more to get the same level of comfort that a not-so-tall person receives paying less, but there was a good promo where if I upgraded for all 5 it was $65 per long flight (so it was 10 upgrades total, which amounted for about 20% of the price of the original tickets). Also, and I know I will regret this, my wife and daughter conspired to take our dog in the cabin, which added for another $250 for the whole itinerary.

    Yesterday I received 5 automated emails from united refunding $65 5 times. I went to the itinerary to see what was going on and the outbound flights had disappeared. We called United (which is a pain in itself, but I will not go into that here) and the agent explained that the flight we had was cancelled, that we could opt to fly same day ELP-IAH-PTY-EZE (last leg with Copa) or get a similar flights that we had for June 30 but either June 25 or July 1. All with no change in price. We opted to depart on June 29 in a similar itinerary (ELP-IAH-EZE).

    When we got the confirmation by email, we realized that we had about 1 hour of stop over in IAH. That should be normally ok, but normally ok was perhaps not comfortable enough here. The time of arrival to IAH is the time of landing, not the time you are actually off the plane, we will likely need to switch terminals, the international flights in big planes normally start boarding 45 minutes before the departure time, and we will be going with a dog that we wished would have the opportunity to relieve between flights. Plus, there is not much margin for a delay which, if it happens, would mean that we would lose the only flight to Bue that day and that and we would need to fly either the next day via PTY or 2 days later direct to Bue, assuming that there are seats available.

    No problem, there are earlier flights from ELP to IAH. We checked on line and effectively, there was one 2 hours earlier in United for $150 or something.

    So we called United again (actually, we chatted via SMS).
    - Hi, We would like to leave earlier from ELP to be not so tight in IAH, is that possible? I saw that flight xxx that leaves earlier has seats available.
    - Yes, of course. That would be $1400 more per pax.
    - WHAT????? We are just changing the flight from ELP to IAH. If we paid for that flight it would be only $150 per pax, not considering any credit for the flight we are declining.
    - No sir, that's not how it works. I need to do the whole itinerary again at the current price. And you are lucky that I can use the current price for the fare category you currently have, because if you were just booking the flight that category is not available now and it would be even more expensive.
    - Ok, then don't change the flight. Just remove it form the itinerary and I will book the new flight to IAH separately.
    - Sure sir, that would be no problem. it would still cost $1200 per pax though.
    - What???? Why? Jut take me out of the first flight, don't give me any money back, sell my seats to someone else and let me take the rest of the trip with the tickets I already have.
    - Sorry but, as I explained, I cannot do that. I have to re-issue the whole itinerary at current prices.
    - Ok, then leave everything as is, I will miss the first flight and meet you in IAH, I will get there somewhere else.
    - Oh, you cannot do that, sir. If you don't show up for the first flight it will be considered a no-show and your whole itinerary will be cancelled.
    - So, let's imagine a situation where I have an unexpected issue and I am out of town, so I call you a couple of days before to tell you that I will not be able to make the first flight but I still want the rest of the flights.... Would I still miss the whole ticket for not showing up to the first flight even when I am advising you in advance?
    - Well, either yes, or....
    - Don't tell me, you would have to re-issue the whole itinerary at current prices.
    - Correct, you got it!



    How is that NOT ridiculous? I wonder if it is even legal?

    Just to begin with, how can the same ticket, on the same flights, same seats, same service, cost $600 one day and $2100 another? That's 250% more expensive!!!!
    Second, the whole situation was triggered by their cancelation of the original flight. Yes, they owned that by offering alternative options for the same price. Unfortunately it was hard to follow over the phone call the details of the flights that they were offering and we missed that we had only 1 hour in IAH. If at that point we had requested the earlier flight we would have had it for the same price.
    Finally, that thing of having no choice but cancelling the whole flight and having no choice but to make a whole itinerary is a lame excuse. Of course they have choice, as they did when they changed or flights for the same price.

    Imagine that you order a meal at Burger King and they charge you $10. Then you say hey I forgot to tell you, please don't put cheese in the burger and they say no problem sir, now it is $40. You see, while not putting the cheese is cheaper for us, I cannot just remove the cheese from your order, I have to redo the whole order again and make it at current prices that just went up 300%. BK would be out of business overnight.

    The concentration of the airlines removed the competency to the point of making it an oligopoly, All the mainstream airlines (all 3 of them) have similar prices, similar crappy service, similar lack of legroom, similar policies, tot he point where the freedom of choosing the airline that you want is just an illusion.

    I am all for private companies and deregulation, but in a context of competition, reasonability and ethics, nothing of which is present here.

    I wish I could say "I will neve fly United again", but I can't. Because I will need to fly to Arg again every year or so and I will need to fly one of the 3 airlines that align align themselves to abuse their customers in the same ways. We are their hostages. We can't choose not to fly. We can't choose to fly with someone that behaves differently.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  • #2
    First time you are flying ? Maybe you should read the terms of your Ticket before complaining. And maybe you should read your own post as well, it says you called Delta again whereas your complaint is about United

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by fleckenmann View Post
      First time you are flying ?
      No

      Maybe you should read the terms of your Ticket before complaining.
      How would that have helped? Could I have said "I don't agree, change the terms"? Could I have chosen to fly in another airline with different terms?

      And maybe you should read your own post as well, it says you called Delta again whereas your complaint is about United
      Thank you for letting me know of that mistake. I fixed it.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
        No


        How would that have helped? Could I have said "I don't agree, change the terms"? Could I have chosen to fly in another airline with different terms?

        Just don’t book if you don’t agree to the terms of your contract ? You can’t complain afterwards if you actually agreed to the terms when booking. Several airlines are offering more flexibility for a higher price. If you buy bargain, you get bargain. To what I totally agree ist that the US is lacking any sort of passenger rights like in many other countries and the EU.

        Thank you for letting me know of that mistake. I fixed it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by fleckenmann View Post
          Just don’t book if you don’t agree to the terms of your contract?
          That was not an option. I NEED to travel and I can't choose an airline with different terms of service because all of them have the same crap.

          You can’t complain afterwards if you actually agreed to the terms when booking. Several airlines are offering more flexibility for a higher price.
          That's a scam. The flexible fares are designed so nobody buys them. They are so much more expensive than the standard fares that you are paying in advance any extra cost you would have to pay when changing your itinerary (whether you ultimately have to change it or not)..

          There are airlines that have more sound systems like Southwest but they don't fly to South America.

          So the real problem is the combination of oligopoly and lack or regulation that leaves the passenger without freedom to choose and without government protection. Which leaves the passengers are hostages of the airlines.

          Look what happened: THEY cancelled a flight and THEY forced me to take a different flight than the one I had already paid for. Did they pay anything to me? No, because the contract says that it is not breach of contract when it is them who breach the contract.

          Now, I want to make a small change, in my itinerary, just leave earlier in the first 1-hour leg of a round trip that totals 4 flights and 24 hours of flight. Ok, pay triple what you already have paid.
          How is that NOT abusive? Why are the not-flexible fares always flexible FOR THEM?

          Also, look at this: If you want to miss the first flight of your itinerary but not complete the rest of it, you can't. You are considered no show and your full itinerary is cancelled.
          Now, what happens if you want to drop your LAST leg? Well, you can't wither. it is against the contract. And airlines have gone as far as suing passengers who did just that.
          Why would passengers do that? Well. it happens that if you want to fly from small city A to small city B you normally cannot unless you go through hub H, so you purchase an itinerary that has a flight from A to H and from H to B. The thin is that often times that itinerary from A to B (that has low demand) is cheaper than just a flight from A to H. So people really wanting to go from A to H purchase from A to B and not show to the H-B flight.

          In more than one occasion, airlines sued the pax for breach of contract and for the damages incurred in lost revenue since if the pax would have bought from A to H, as it was really their intention, they would have paid more. However, in every instance the justice dismissed the cases saying that there was no damage incurred by the airline, that the pax had bought the flight from A to H as part of the pax and that the only side effect of not showing to the flight form H to B was saving a bit of fuel fore the airline, which still kept the money the pax payed for that flight.

          Unfortunately, when the flight you want to drop is the first one, the situation is exactly identical to the previous case where the justice ruled in favor of the pax except that the airline has the power to screw the pax by not allowing them to board the next flights in the itinerary.
          That's why I wondered if what the airlines are doing is even legal.

          How is that not abusive?

          I know that I accepted a contract, but I feel that it is a contract I had no choice but to accept. I was "coerced" into accepting it. Because I need to fly to Arg and saying "ok you have this and if you don't like it you can also pick this other thrice-as-expensive option that offers zero benefit from the cheap one, or pick another airline that will offer you exactly the same, or not fly" is really not giving you any option at all.

          And did I mention that all started when THEY UNILTATERALLY CANCELLD THE FLIGHT I HAD ALREADY PAID FOR and offered me nothing in compensation?

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

          Comment


          • #6
            On one hand you are saying, you had no choice, two sentences later you say that other choices would have been to expensive. Maybe you should calm down, read what you wrote and start thinking, that you first judge yourself before judging others. Over and out

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fleckenmann View Post
              On one hand you are saying, you had no choice, two sentences later you say that other choices would have been to expensive. Maybe you should calm down, read what you wrote and start thinking, that you first judge yourself before judging others. Over and out
              Over and out my butt. How about YOU read what I wrote before saying that I should do the same?

              That's a scam. The flexible fares are designed so nobody buys them. They are so much more expensive than the standard fares that you are paying in advance any extra cost you would have to pay when changing your itinerary (whether you ultimately have to change it or not).

              I know that I accepted a contract, but I feel that it is a contract I had no choice but to accept. I was "coerced" into accepting it. Because I need to fly to Arg and saying "ok you have this and if you don't like it you can also pick this other thrice-as-expensive option that offers zero benefit from the cheap one, or pick another airline that will offer you exactly the same, or not fly" is really not giving you any option at all.
              Want an hamburger? Ok so you have this complete hamburger for $10 but if you later want to remove the cheese it will cost you $20.
              But wait, there is an option. You can buy the " flex" hamburger for $40 that lets you remove the cheese later at no extra cost!.
              You don't like these options? No problem. There are exactly other 2 restaurants that offer you exactly the same low quality meal for exactly the same prices and with exactly the same options.
              And of course, you have the option not to eat at all (because there is nothing else to eat).

              YOU ARE FREE TO CHOOSE!!!!

              Click image for larger version  Name:	Economy.png Views:	0 Size:	76.3 KB ID:	1116228

              OVER AND OUT!

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

              Comment


              • #8
                we then paid an upgrade to Premium Economy. First time that I do that, since I feel quite bad having to pay more to get the same level of comfort that a not-so-tall person receives paying less
                Hi Gabe. Ahm, do you allow me to go through your #1 post here in this topic, step by step. I mean, the #1 post here really has the typical Gabriel length. So, step 1.

                We have told nobody else, but until today we have no photo where we stand next to each other. So. I know that I am rather 'a not-so-tall person', I am less than 200 cm high. Which directly leads us to the next problem. The US system vs the metrical system. 200 cm are 2 meters, which are.. 6.562 feet. Next problem. The US system doesn't know figures like .. 1,894 meter.
                You rather say, 6 ft xx inches, don't you.

                So. A man who is 200 cm high would be.. 6 ft 8 in , in your language, as I assume. So, what do we talk about? I am shorter than 6 ft 8 in.

                But I know seats where I would place 200 cm men, if you come to me and if I were your check-in desk operator. The next problem. Who on earth really still checks in at a check-in desk where you had to communicate with a real human?!
                I have done so, during my last flight. And she was really nice, she didn't ask me 'smoker' or 'non-smoker', that question has become redundant, afaik on board a LH-B744 since 1998.
                But she asked me, where I'd like to sit. Not only 'window seat or aisle', but if I had known the complete seat plan of that aircraft, I could have said... D26. Which I didn't, I only said,
                a window seat, if you have. And she fulfilled my wish.

                To make it short, I still have to read the rest of your forum entry #1 here in this topic, so I don't know yet if you have mentioned the precise a/c type for each leg. But if you had been on board of the following aircraft, I had definitely known where the places are for 200 cm men. So, let's talk about this aircraft, theoretically:

                Click image for larger version

Name:	Lufthansa 747 Victor Papa from above (2019) 3k res.jpg
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                This is not only my nickname, but this is the a/c registration which I use with Randazzo's LH-B744 fsx simulator, [if no seats have been changed since the year 2019.]

                So let me be your check-in desk operator. In this case and under the given circumstances, I wouldn't give you the D26. But rather the K33, if you like a window seat. You see what I'm aiming at?
                More legspace, and you don't need a Business class ticket. That's the trick...

                To me that sounds brilliant, but as I said, I have never had such a problem, I'm fine with seat D26 or K35. But that very much depends on the a/c type which you sit in.

                I only know that in a LH-B744, the 'more legspace' trick works quite well, even with 'a simple economy ticket' .
                Always assumed that these seats are still available.
                The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
                The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Except that K33 is way more expensive than K34

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [...] there is not much margin for a delay which, if it happens, would mean that we would lose the only flight to Bue that day and that and we would need to fly either the next day via PTY or 2 days later direct to Bue, assuming that there are seats available.
                    Hm. I had said, if IAH is such a big problem, you could try FRA. But that again is something which I only had told you back then in the year 2019. With the frequencies (freq) that were normal,
                    until 2020...

                    In the year 2021, the whole aviation world has the same problems. At this very moment, I have the LH schedule for January 2010 here on my table. We can have a look at it, but there is one thing which I have to say before we do so. The frequencies on that schedule are not the same as what you have experienced only a few days ago! I almost tend to say, the 2010 frequencies almost seem exaggerated or ridiculous. Now, after this warning, let's have a look. My favorite airline back then in the year 2010.

                    [LH #510 FRA 1015 - EZE 2000 freq 1234567 nonstop . a/c type LH-B744 . as announced in the LH schedule winter 2010]

                    Nowadays that has changed, not so very much concerning the a/c type, but the frequencies? Jesus! Freshly received from Rhein/Main, for May and June 2021:

                    LH #510 FRA 2155 - EZE 0640 freq --3-5-- nonstop . a/c type LH-B748 .

                    So, I'm still not completely through your forum entry #1. But I begin to understand your problem. Normally, my very next question would be, who on Earth gave you such an imperfect itinerary?

                    And I have a suspect. You typed 'departure abc' and 'arrival xyz', and the internet gave you exactly that one connection, which practically is impossible, but for which all counterparts have paid alot of money.
                    Because it is practically impossible.

                    Now again, let me be your check in desk operator. I only need one info, Gabe. How many UA flights do you see daily between your home airport and IAH?

                    I can tell you how many flights I would expect, if this weekend were a normal aviation weekend in 2010 or 2019. I'd expect 7 flights, daily. If I were a passenger for LH #510 and if I were waiting here on my home airport for the connection flight to Rhein/Main Intl .

                    This is a connection flight which - under "normal" circumstances- includes some guarantees, so that you will never get lost when you change the aircraft.

                    All the following is only valid for my favorite airline.

                    As far as I know my favorite airline, they only give you itineraries for which they really work hard so that during this connection you really will never get lost. An example.
                    DUS - FRA with LH,
                    connected to
                    LH #510 FRA - EZE, also with LH .

                    The 747 Flight Captain on #510 has all the passengers on his screen who start their journey at DUS.

                    And under normal circumstances he waits for you, even if you t/o at DUS a little bit late.

                    Now again there is the question, who would give you a flight which is as imperfect as you mentioned it.
                    If you ask me, not your favorite airline, and not my favorite airline, at least not if you ask your airline directly
                    e.g. "your-airline dot com" ,
                    and if you avoid places such as expedice, discountflights500, et cetera.

                    Since quite some time, I book my flights
                    either directly with the provider, i.e. your counterpart is the airline herself,
                    or with a travel agency who is almost as old as me.

                    What I have not yet tried, but what is also possible, visit your home airport and buy the flight directly at your check-in desk operator. That's how the whole world has bought tickets back then in the 1970s, and that still is possible, at least here on my home airport. And the women are really nice, and as I assume, they know everything about 'more legspace' and
                    'animals which are allowed in the cabin'.
                    Tigers, Giraffes, Rhinoceros, ...
                    The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
                    The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                    And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                    This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      Except that K33 is way more expensive than K34
                      Hey my friend.

                      As I said, I have never had such a problem, as I am probably much shorter than you. So, in my entry #10, I only can say how I always prepare my itineraries.

                      That would be a good question. Who would pay less for the same flight, you or me.

                      You tried to get more legspace with an upgrade which you bought preflight, premium economy.

                      I described my way of flight preparation in my entry #10 . BEFORE I volutarily pay for more legspace, I'd always ask the check-in desk operator at your home airport, in person, not via internet and not via telephone.
                      When they see you in person, 6 ft 8 inches, they normally try to book you for K33, or G29 or B32. And you know why? That might be a legend, but I have heard somewhere, that the airline even looks for rather tall, stable men for these seats near the emergency exits. Due to one reason. Rather tall stable men are helpful when rather small not so stable women who might be a little older than you and me have to be guided to the exits.

                      That's what I have heard. And I still don't know if these seats always are so much more expensive
                      a) if you are the right man on the right seat, and
                      b) compared to the premium eco upgrade, when your airline does not upgrade you due to, ahm, am I allowed to mention that, 'miles & more' that thing is called here on my home airport..

                      And at IAH they do not wait for the connection flights? Not even within one and the same airline? Hm.
                      The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
                      The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                      And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                      This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        so Gabe, i've mad the same rant over and over, here an elsewhere. this is what happens when you deregulate the airlines and give them protection from state-law based lawsuits. sure, deregulation wasn't entirely bad, but the asinine argument about how it greatly reduced prices is contradicted by the history: fares had been dropping for some time before deregulation happened and likely would've continued to drop.

                        the game they played with you is truly one that a non-airline employee could never conjure. fare rules that are so complex, that even the folks i speak to at the top tier of AA, don't understand them and have to call their "fare desk." imagine, you have created a system SO effin complex that your own employees--bloody reservation agents for *ucks sake--don't understand them!!!

                        and to the new guy fleckenmann, why don't you pull up United's terms and conditions and copy and paste the part that expresslly permits them to do what Gabe is complaining about. wait, dont waste your time. fare rules are not included in the contract of carriage. in fact, they are pretty much only visible to the customer at one point and then magically disappear after purchase. at least that's how it is on AA. but let's assume for a moment that you were extremely conscientious and dug through the muck to find the fare rules. you would likley find something like the below. so smart new guy, fleckenmann, kindly decode the below for us so that it is understandable from a typical consumer's perspective.

                        SEASONALITY - NO SEASONAL TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
                        DAY/TIME - NO DAY/TIME TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
                        ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING - CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS. WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE AT LEAST 21 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE, TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 72 HOURS AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE. OR - CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS. TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 24 HOURS AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE.
                        SURCHARGES - IF INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2. OR - INCLUSIVE TOUR INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2. THERE IS NO MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE PER FARE COMPONENT PER ANY PASSENGER. ORIGINATING BUE - FUEL SURCHARGE OF USD 47.00 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THE FUEL SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT. WHEN A FUEL SURCHARGE IS COLLECTED IT MUST BE DENOTED AS A -Q- CHARGE ON EACH TICKET ACCORDINGLY ORIGINATING COLOMBIA - FUEL SURCHARGE OF USD 47.00 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THE FUEL SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT. WHEN A FUEL SURCHARGE IS COLLECTED IT MUST BE DENOTED AS A -Q- CHARGE ON EACH TICKET ACCORDINGLY
                        MAXIMUM STAY - TRAVEL FROM LAST SECTOR MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN MIDNIGHT 365 DAYS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
                        ELIGIBILITY - NO ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
                        SALES RESTRICTIONS - TICKETS MAY NOT BE SOLD IN VENEZUELA. TICKETS MAY ONLY BE SOLD IN AREA 1/AREA 2/AREA 3. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. A USD 600.00 PENALTY APPLIES IF SOLD INVENEZUELA. '16.PENALTIES *SPECIAL EMERGENCY RULES *SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANYTIME ORIGINATING ARGENTINA - CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. TICKETS SOLD IN ARGENTINA MAY ONLY BE REFUND IN ARGENTINA. NOTE- 1.FARES ARE FULLY REFUNDABLE IN SINGLE FORM OF PAYMENT. 2.RESERVATION CANCELLED RETAINS TICKET VALUE/LESS APPLICABLE DIFFERENCE IN FARE FOR FLOWN SEGMENTS UP TO ONE YEAR FROM THE ORIGINAL DATE OF TICKET ISSUE. CHANGES ANY TIME CHANGES PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. TICKETS SOLD IN ARGENTINA MAY ONLY BE REISSUE IN A R ARGENTINA. NOTE- -TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY CHANGE IS MADE. ORIGINAL RESERVATIONS ARE CANCELLED AND THE NEW INTENDED TRAVEL SCHEDULED UP TO ONE YEAR FROM ORIGINAL DATE OF TICKET ISSUE -ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARE MUST BE COLLECTED AT THE TIME OF CHANGE/REISSUE. ORIGINATING AREA 1 - CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. 1.FARES ARE FULLY REFUNDABLE IN SINGLE FORM OF PAYMENT. 2.RESERVATION CANCELLED RETAINS TICKET VALUE/LESS APPLICABLE DIFFERENCE IN FARE FOR FLOWN SEGMENTS UP TO ONE YEAR FROM THE ORIGINAL DATE OF TICKET ISSUE. CHANGES ANY TIME CHANGES PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. -TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY CHANGE IS MADE. ORIGINAL RESERVATIONS ARE CANCELLED AND THE NEW INTENDED TRAVEL SCHEDULED UP TO ONE YEAR FROM ORIGINAL DATE OF TICKET ISSUE -ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARE MUST BE COLLECTED AT THE TIME OF CHANGE/REISSUE. FARE RULE ORIGINATING ARGENTINA - CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. TICKETS SOLD IN ARGENTINA MAY ONLY BE REFUND IN ARGENTINA. NOTE- 1.FARES ARE FULLY REFUNDABLE IN SINGLE FORM OF PAYMENT. 2.RESERVATION CANCELLED RETAINS TICKET VALUE/LESS APPLICABLE DIFFERENCE IN FARE FOR FLOWN SEGMENTS UP TO ONE YEAR FROM THE ORIGINAL DATE OF TICKET ISSUE. CHANGES ANY TIME CHANGES PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. TICKETS SOLD IN ARGENTINA MAY ONLY BE REISSUE IN A R ARGENTINA. NOTE- -TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY CHANGE IS MADE. ORIGINAL RESERVATIONS ARE CANCELLED AND THE NEW INTENDED TRAVEL SCHEDULED UP TO ONE YEAR FROM ORIGINAL DATE OF TICKET ISSUE -ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARE MUST BE COLLECTED AT THE TIME OF CHANGE/REISSUE. ORIGINATING AREA 1 - CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. 1.FARES ARE FULLY REFUNDABLE IN SINGLE FORM OF PAYMENT. 2.RESERVATION CANCELLED RETAINS TICKET VALUE/LESS APPLICABLE DIFFERENCE IN FARE FOR FLOWN SEGMENTS UP TO ONE YEAR FROM THE ORIGINAL DATE OF TICKET ISSUE. CHANGES ANY TIME CHANGES PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. -TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY CHANGE IS MADE. ORIGINAL RESERVATIONS ARE CANCELLED AND THE NEW INTENDED TRAVEL SCHEDULED UP TO ONE YEAR FROM ORIGINAL DATE OF TICKET ISSUE -ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARE MUST BE COLLECTED AT THE TIME OF CHANGE/REISSUE.
                        VOLUNTARY CHANGES - ENTER RD*31 OR RD'LINE NUM'*31 FOR VOLUNTARY CHGS.
                        FLIGHT APPLICATION - THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT INCLUDE TRAVEL VIA CENTRAL AMERICA. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY AV FLIGHT OPERATED BY AM ANY AV FLIGHT OPERATED BY CM. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY 3M FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY AC FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY AI FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY AM FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY BR FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY CA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY CM FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY EQ FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY EY FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY IB FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY LH FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY NH FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY OZ FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY SQ FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY TK FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY UA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AV ANY IB FLIGHT OPERATED BY TA ANY LH FLIGHT OPERATED BY TA AV FLIGHTS 2244 THROUGH 2249 AV FLIGHTS 2260 THROUGH 2265 LR FLIGHTS 1024 THROUGH 1084 9B FLIGHTS 1000 THROUGH 2099 9B FLIGHTS 2600 THROUGH 3999 9B FLIGHTS 6300 THROUGH 8099 9B FLIGHTS 8800 THROUGH 9999 AC FLIGHTS 2500 THROUGH 6999 AC FLIGHTS 9000 THROUGH 9999 AD FLIGHTS 2000 THROUGH 2099 AD FLIGHTS 6000 THROUGH 7999 AD FLIGHTS 9400 THROUGH 9599 AD FLIGHTS 9900 THROUGH 9999 AF FLIGHTS 1900 THROUGH 9999 KL FLIGHTS 2025 THROUGH 9999 AI FLIGHTS 001 THROUGH 099 AI FLIGHTS 100 THROUGH 399 AI FLIGHTS 900 THROUGH 999 AI FLIGHTS 1001 THROUGH 1099 AI FLIGHTS 1100 THROUGH 1399 AI FLIGHTS 1900 THROUGH 1999 AI FLIGHTS 3000 THROUGH 9999 AM FLIGHTS 3000 THROUGH 8199 AM FLIGHTS 8340 THROUGH 9999 AR FLIGHTS 0001 THROUGH 0999 AR FLIGHTS 1950 THROUGH 1999 AR FLIGHTS 2950 THROUGH 2999 AR FLIGHTS 7000 THROUGH 7999 AZ FLIGHTS 2400 THROUGH 3999 AZ FLIGHTS 4101 THROUGH 5999 AZ FLIGHTS 7000 THROUGH 7999. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING B6 FLIGHTS 5000 THROUGH 5999 BA FLIGHT 0510 BA FLIGHT 0512 BA FLIGHT 0514 BA FLIGHT 0516 BA FLIGHT 0518 BA FLIGHT 0520 BA FLIGHT 0522 BA FLIGHT 0524 BA FLIGHT 0526 BA FLIGHT 0532 BA FLIGHT 0534 BA FLIGHT 0536 BA FLIGHT 0538 BA FLIGHTS 1500 THROUGH 2029 BA FLIGHTS 2046 THROUGH 2060 BA FLIGHTS 2070 THROUGH 2149 BA FLIGHTS 2170 THROUGH 2199 BA FLIGHTS 2240 THROUGH 2249 BA FLIGHTS 2290 THROUGH 2539 BA FLIGHTS 2800 THROUGH 2899 BA FLIGHTS 3000 THROUGH 3269 BA FLIGHTS 3300 THROUGH 4449 BA FLIGHTS 4480 THROUGH 7999 BA FLIGHTS 8040 THROUGH 8449 BA FLIGHTS 8498 THROUGH 8699 BA FLIGHTS 8770 THROUGH 9999 BR FLIGHTS 2001 THROUGH 3999 CA FLIGHTS 1151 THROUGH 1200 CA FLIGHTS 3201 THROUGH 3999 CA FLIGHTS 4075 THROUGH 4098 CA FLIGHTS 4600 THROUGH 5300 CA FLIGHTS 5401 THROUGH 9000 CM FLIGHTS 1000 THROUGH 2999 CM FLIGHTS 3400 THROUGH 3999 CM FLIGHTS 5000 THROUGH 6999 CM FLIGHTS 8000 THROUGH 9999 CU FLIGHTS 6000 THROUGH 6999 CZ FLIGHTS 701 THROUGH 799 CZ FLIGHTS 1001 THROUGH 1999 CZ FLIGHTS 4001 THROUGH 5999 CZ FLIGHTS 7000 THROUGH 7999 EQ FLIGHTS 2000 THROUGH 7999 EQ FLIGHTS 8100 THROUGH 9999 ET FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 99 ET FLIGHTS 1001 THROUGH 1899 EY FLIGHTS 1000 THROUGH 1999 EY FLIGHTS 2500 THROUGH 5399 EY FLIGHTS 5500 THROUGH 9999. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING IB FLIGHTS 50 THROUGH 399 IB FLIGHTS 658 THROUGH 687 IB FLIGHTS 980 THROUGH 999 IB FLIGHTS 4000 THROUGH 4999 IB FLIGHTS 5000 THROUGH 5999 IB FLIGHTS 7000 THROUGH 7999 ANY IB FLIGHT OPERATED BY VY KE FLIGHTS 5000 THROUGH 7999 LH FLIGHTS 5000 THROUGH 9999 LY FLIGHTS 8000 THROUGH 8999 LX FLIGHTS 3000 THROUGH 4999 NH FLIGHTS 3000 THROUGH 3200 NH FLIGHTS 3300 THROUGH 4840 NH FLIGHTS 5001 THROUGH 9999 OS FLIGHTS 7000 THROUGH 8999 OZ FLIGHTS 6100 THROUGH 7000 OZ FLIGHTS 8100 THROUGH 8109 OZ FLIGHTS 8800 THROUGH 8816 OZ FLIGHTS 9101 THROUGH 9200 QR FLIGHTS 2000 THROUGH 9999 SA FLIGHTS 2000 THROUGH 2999 SA FLIGHTS 7000 THROUGH 7999 SN FLIGHTS 4000 THROUGH 9999 SQ FLIGHTS 1000 THROUGH 9999 TK FLIGHTS 7800 THROUGH 9299 UA FLIGHTS 2836 THROUGH 3149 UA FLIGHTS 5025 THROUGH 5200 UA FLIGHTS 6385 THROUGH 6599 UA FLIGHTS 6727 THROUGH 9999 UX FLIGHTS 3000 THROUGH 3999 UX FLIGHTS 8000 THROUGH 8999.
                        MINIMUM STAY - NO MINIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
                        BLACKOUT DATES - NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY.
                        RULE APPLICATION AND OTHER CONDITIONS - NOTE - THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. L APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION THIS RULE GOVERNS ONE-WAY FARES. FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE CAN BE USED TO CREATE ONE-WAY/ROUND-TRIP/CIRCLE-TRIP/OPEN-JAW JOURNEYS. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS THE CARRIER SHALL LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS CARRIED ON ANY ONE FLIGHT AT FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE AND SUCH FARES WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE AVAILABLE ON ALL FLIGHTS. THE NUMBER OF SEATS, WHICH THE CARRIER SHALL MAKE AVAILABLE ON A GIVEN FLIGHT, WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE CARRIER$S BEST JUDGEMENT.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you TeeVee. I'm hiring you as my lawyer

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I want to know why Gabriel thinks now is different?

                            Fleckennen’s most valid question was: “Is this your first time to fly?”

                            Yeah, Gabe, it seems you luckily avoided this issue until now.

                            We’ve bitched about this for years. As unbelievable as it is, we go to the internet and choose the lowest fare.

                            Airline A adopts a seemingly awful policy, but the
                            customer clicks on the lower fare so Airline B follows suit.

                            Unfortunately, ain’t no one changing it nor the ‘cable TV’ industry, nor the agricultural ‘right to repair’ issue.
                            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                              I want to know why Gabriel thinks now is different?
                              There was a time when I asked the FA is I could move to the emergency exit seat that was empty there in the same section that I was and the FA would always tell me "yes", now hey tell me "yes but let me bring the POS to charge you for the upgrade"

                              There was a time where I was late to the gate because of longer than expected security lines (and my family not being ready to leave home at the time we had aligned). The plane was still there but boarding had already finished and they were about to close the door. They didn't allow me to board but the gave me a different flight combination (which by the way was much longer, they gave me ELP-DAL-SJD and the original was ELP-PHX-SJD) without charging me extra. Now they want to triple the price of the whole itinerary ticket to change 1 flight that accounts for 5% of the itinerary, when that change request was motivated by them cancelling my original flight.

                              That "good time" was until like 5 years ago.

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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