Air Canada seeks new vote on pilots' labor contract

[babypurin]

Toronto and Ottawa — Air Canada asked the Canada Industrial Relations Board late yesterday to order a new vote on a proposed labour contract rejected last week by unionized pilots.

The rejection led the airline to cancel its $6-billion (U.S.) plane order from Boeing Co. because the purchase was contingent on pilots' approval. The carrier is seeking a declaration from the board to settle the simmering controversy over seniority rights among feuding factions in the Air Canada Pilots Association.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050625.waircan/BNStory/Business/

[ptbodale]

The non pilot employees of Air Canada are not too impressed with their childish ways. We all got over (more or less) our snits with the amalgamation.


(Fixed my typo)

[onlyboeingifly]

Its funny how the pilots childish games can wreck the future of the company..... now all the other employees have to suffer because of this vote! The addition of the new aircraft would have opened up many new route for AC.

[Ramp Pilot]

The non pilot employees of Air Canada are not too impressed with their childish ways. We all got over (more or less) our snits with the amalgamation.


(Fixed my typo)

Yeah, but how much of a paycut did you take when a blue guy bumped you out of your position. Or did that happen? Apples and Oranges...

[ptbodale]

Ramp Pilot since you asked I will tell you. I last had a pay raise in 1997 (Air Canada took the 4% away in 1998 ). Since the amalgamation I have had two pay cuts. I have 26 years seniority at Air Canada and I am now 4th from the bottom in my department (18 of us). I had 7 Canadian Airlines managers bump in and push me down. I cannot get summer holidays. I am no longer paid overtime if I have to work it (we get lieu time, but try to get it back when you want).

At first it was tough but as a group we realize we (the employees) did not force this amalgamation and we have to work together. I can understand some of the frustration the pilots are experiencing, however you do not hold the Company and thousands of employees who make far less than you hostage.

I was on the flight deck on day and the Capt asked me what I thought of pilots. I answered "10% excellent, 10% horrible, 80% normal". He laughed and answered "You are wrong, its 10% excellent, 10% normal and 80% assholes". He pointed to the 1st Officer and said, "he's in the 80%". The 1st Officer had been giving me a hard time most of the flight.

Pilots whine about their meals (I bring mine to work), their uniforms (ours have been cut off), their hours (they bid theirs, I'm told mine) and just about everything else in the Company. Hey, they only work 75 hours a month. They are never around each day to hear and see what the other employees and the Company is up to.

Yes there are tough parts about their job, mine too, but if they don't like Air Canada then they can pack their bags and look for another flying job. Don't give me the crap that they are "always away from home". They wanted to be pilots and they knew this was part of the job. Here, I have another good pilot story. Because of mechanicals in LHR I had to move a crew up from their 2 day layover to a 17 hour layover. The Captain called me in a snit because he was losing his "expenses". I explained the problem and gave him my apologies. He said "I have 4 goddamn wives to support, you can't take away my expenses". I told him to get some rest.

[Ramp Pilot]

So basicly, no, you didnt take a paycut because of a blue guy bumping you out. Thanks.

however you do not hold the Company and thousands of employees who make far less than you hostage.

After looking at the last vote, yeah, we do.

[ptbodale]

I guess you can't read. You may have missed it. Yes I have had pay cuts because the "blue" team came in. It's in the first paragraph.

Front line, middle management and ATS (clerical) have been hit harder in the pocket book than any unionized group. While the company has given raises to all unionized groups (small raises yes, but still raises) the management and ATS people have been given nothing. And while the seniority decreased for the pilots and other unionized people, the management and ATS people were shown the door. I don't have the exact numbers here at home but around 50% of the management/ATS people are now unemployed. We do not have recall rights.

The pilots can cry all they want, but they have to realize there is more to an airline than them!

P.S. I liked your answer, it's a typical pilot answer....Me Me Me. Screw everyone else. What about me?

[onlyboeingifly]

Pilots whine about their meals (I bring mine to work), their uniforms (ours have been cut off), their hours (they bid theirs, I'm told mine) and just about everything else in the Company. Hey, they only work 75 hours a month. They are never around each day to hear and see what the other employees and the Company is up to.

WOW!!! Well put!!!........most of them think they can walk on water!

[wannabepilot777]

Unfortunatly, I think the union has a ligit reason for being mad. Clearly there is a problem and I think they will fix it and reorder these planes.

[babypurin]

Hopefully management will compromise with the pilots and convince them what they are doing is stupid and really stunting the long-term growth of the airline. I really hope this decision is reversed, as not only it a big loss for Boeing, but Air Canada who has to deal with a slowly aging fleet which is going to cost tons of money to upgrade.

[bbuse]

The pilots can cry all they want, but they have to realize there is more to an airline than them!

P.S. I liked your answer, it's a typical pilot answer....Me Me Me. Screw everyone else. What about me?

I have often heard other non-pilot airline employees say this same thing about the airline pilots. I especially have heard this often from the mechanics.

[onlyboeingifly]

I have often heard other non-pilot airline employees say this same thing about the airline pilots. I especially have heard this often from the mechanics.

well you never hear mechanics saying.... me, me, me, screw everyone else!!

[Cam]

Dale I'm with you 100%...and everyone else here that thinks the airline unions are too powerful and need to be "amortized".

You could always be this poor chap Ramp Pilot...You got it pretty damn good pal...

[Ramp Pilot]

You could always be this poor chap Ramp Pilot...You got it pretty damn good pal...

First, don't try to tell me how good I have it, you don't know me. Second, I would never be "that poor chap" because I would never scab myself out and work for a dump like JetsGo, or a crook like Leblanc.

[Cam]

If you were out of a job and they were hiring...i'd like to see your responce when you need to put food on the table...