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  • DL/NW Merger in the Works?

    Can two wrongs make a right? I doubt it will happen...

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  • #2
    youve gotta think about the fleet differential...i dont really think this will happen, just cause US&HP merged doesnt mean were gonna see tons of mergers now

    Midwest Airlines - The Best Care In The Air

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    • #3
      Polish is right, the fleet is to uncommon. The costs of managing such a diverse fleet would be a nightmare for the emerging company. Think about it you'd have double of almost everything to manage the fleet. One of the benefits of merging is to reduce costs, a DL/NW merger would mean double MX, training, capital, facilities. Don't see it happening.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by tommyalf
        Polish is right, the fleet is to uncommon. The costs of managing such a diverse fleet would be a nightmare for the emerging company. Think about it you'd have double of almost everything to manage the fleet. One of the benefits of merging is to reduce costs, a DL/NW merger would mean double MX, training, capital, facilities. Don't see it happening.
        I don't see it either but...

        Part of bankruptcy is remodeling the company. If they get 3 years like UA has done, it will give them time to establish a plan toward fleet commonality. Both airlines and their investors would have to be willing to lose money several more years.
        Follow me on Twitter! www.twitter.com/flyingphotog

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        • #5
          Originally posted by tommyalf
          Polish is right, the fleet is to uncommon. The costs of managing such a diverse fleet would be a nightmare for the emerging company. Think about it you'd have double of almost everything to manage the fleet. One of the benefits of merging is to reduce costs, a DL/NW merger would mean double MX, training, capital, facilities. Don't see it happening.
          Except that with both being in Ch 11, you might be able to dump a lot of the duplication. A combined NW/DL would obviously operate a lot fewer hubs (and thus planes) than they do individually today, so need a lot these stuff. Two problems though:
          1). The benefits of a merger may well look good on paper but are difficult to achieve in the real world. Issues include timing and a whole host of seemingly minor details would be critical. Done wrong -- and it's very easy to screw up -- you'd create a huge mess that it's a candidate to be back in Ch 11 real soon. (The fleet is a huge problem but with enough cash you can work around that. Speaking of which...)
          2.) Who's going to front the money (billions) to combined DL/NW? Even if you could make a merger work operationally (big if), the combined carrier is going to blow through some serious cash getting there. And without a fair chunk of change post-bankruptcy, DL/NW would be a weak industry follower and likely would be vulnerable down the road.

          MPL

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          • #6
            Well its apparently a very very strong talk around NW and Delta alike.

            Here is what would happen most like.

            1. In Chapter 11 debts would be gone making it easy for both to merge.

            2. Both airlines would come out smaller.

            3. Fleet wise this is how it would work: DC-9's stay on to fill the 100 seat market, MD-80's remain, 737's go in favor of A319/320, 330 and 767 stay on, 744's stay on, dumping of the 777 unless NW goes for 772LR. The 757's would remain, albeit a bit smaller. DC-10's gone, 747-200's gone except freightors.

            4. Airline would remain NW due to fifth freedom rights, and most likely NW take over Delta.

            5. Elimination of some unions

            6. Hubs, Salt Lake City (West), Minneapolis/St. Paul (Midwest), Detroit (Northeast, Europe, Asia), Atlanta (Europe, Southeast, south america)

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            • #7
              Adding to Chris, when United merged with Capital back in the early 60s, it integrated somehow the fleet which had nothing to see with then UA ... which in turn inherited a large fleet of Viscount, a type previously never part of the Friendly Skies' inventory. In addition to opening the Northeast to UA, the merger then surprised a lot of well informed persons.
              Alain
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              • #8
                [QUOTE=chrisburns dumping of the 777 unless NW goes for 772LR.
                . DC-10's gone



                6. Hubs, Salt Lake City (West), Minneapolis/St. Paul (Midwest), Detroit (Northeast, Europe, Asia), Atlanta (Europe, Southeast, south america)[/QUOTE]


                That would be a shame to see all of those new 737s go along with the magnificent 777ER. I would rather see the 767-300ER start out in the company and be phased out as more A330s arrive. I think the 777 offers a range and a passenger capacity that the A330 can not touch and if NWA decided to pick up the 777LR it would fit right in with the 744s, 772ER, 772LR, and 787s... Making the A330s the odd balls of the long haul fleet. I think that makes more sense also because if I am thinking righr Delta owns the 777s outright.

                I would like to pose a new question.... Do you think we could see a newer slimmer NWA replacing their 744s as the retire with the 744ADV?

                6750
                O'Hare - The Aviation God's greatest creation, or their greatest mistake? you be the judge!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by flyingbosshog
                  That would be a shame to see all of those new 737s go along with the magnificent 777ER. I would rather see the 767-300ER start out in the company and be phased out as more A330s arrive. I think the 777 offers a range and a passenger capacity that the A330 can not touch and if NWA decided to pick up the 777LR it would fit right in with the 744s, 772ER, 772LR, and 787s... Making the A330s the odd balls of the long haul fleet. I think that makes more sense also because if I am thinking righr Delta owns the 777s outright.

                  I would like to pose a new question.... Do you think we could see a newer slimmer NWA replacing their 744s as the retire with the 744ADV?

                  6750
                  The 777 has no place in the system and the 747 takes care of that, its been talked about NW getting more 747-400's here shortly because they fly very profitable routes.

                  As far as the 767's, the Delta 767 fleet is far too large for the A330's to replace and wouldnt make sense.

                  The A330 is perfect for Atlantic flights, as most of them dont have enough people to fill a 777 or 747. I believe that Delta leases their 777's i could be wrong but NW owns the A330's wholly.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chrisburns
                    I believe that Delta leases their 777's i could be wrong but NW owns the A330's wholly.
                    DL owns their 8 777s.
                    Prepare For Takeoff - Spread Your Wings - Take Flight at Little Rock National
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                    • #11
                      how old are the 777s? if something like that took place, they could be better off selling them to pull in some cash. they would still have the 767 fleet, and along with NW's A330s and 747s, that should be enough to suffice for their long-haul needs....... or use the money to bring in a few 747ADVs.......
                      Work Right, Fly Hard.

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                      • #12
                        Delta Miles

                        I have some Delta miles and about twice as many NW miles. I wonder if they'll honor my Delta miles?

                        Dick
                        http://dickh.zenfolio.com

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by assghanistan
                          how old are the 777s? if something like that took place, they could be better off selling them to pull in some cash.
                          7 were delivered in 1999 and 1 in 2002, so they aren't very old. I believe they've already tried to sell some of them.
                          Prepare For Takeoff - Spread Your Wings - Take Flight at Little Rock National
                          ATL, BWI, CLT, CVG, DAL, DEN, DFW, DTW, EWR, HOU, IAD, IAH, LAS, MCI, MCO, MDW, MEM, MSP, ORD, PHX, SLC, and STL.

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                          • #14
                            I dont see any more mergers for a while. DL and NW dont have that much in common.

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