DL Pilots Authorize Strike

[ACman]

Just how exactly do you determine on what level pay should be?

The pay should be a respectible level that both parties can agree on. Delta's Pilots Union meets with upper managment and agree on a suitable salarie until there out of chapter 11.

[jmackey_YYT]

So can someone outline what a DL pilot makes compared to other legacy airlines and low cost carriers for similar aircraft types? A doctor is a doctor is a doctor the same as a pilot is a pilot is a pilot. If DL pilots make significantly more than Northwest, AA, Southwest, UA, etc. pilots in similar roles, then there's a debate to be had. If they're paid similar amounts, then maybe a cut is justified.
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Motorcycle tires

[DAL767-400ER]

The pay should be a respectible level that both parties can agree on.

Easier said than done, unfortunately.

Delta's Pilots Union meets with upper managment and agree on a suitable salarie until there out of chapter 11.

That's what about 50,000 DL employees, and millions of DL FFers hope, however with the recent behaviour of the pilots, particularly their "March through Hartsfield", most get the impression that hell would have to freeze over before a compromise can be reached.

So can someone outline what a DL pilot makes compared to other legacy airlines and low cost carriers for similar aircraft types?

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/

Quite a good site, and could also prove interesting to compare pilot pay at US carriers with international carriers, e.g QANTAS (note that the latter's pay is Ozzie dollars).

[jmackey_YYT]

Thanks for the info...I'm in the wrong business, lol. It looks like Delta pays it's pilots only a small bit more than average and it's FO's 10-15% more than average...their pension benefits are substantially higher than some of the others I saw. Overall, I think I'm in the wrong business!

Being in Canada and having only one national airline in the past few years, it's hard to imagine that the US can sustain so many large carriers...I guess that's why they're mostly bankrupt. Maybe it would be best if one or two collapsed and solved some of the problems of all the others.
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Rock_Babe

[DeltaFlyer]

Unfortunately, most of the pilots work to earn a living. They've already taken around 50% in cuts. I understand that their wages are still considerably higher, but (not saying this to be a dick, and if I come across that way, I appologize), it takes a lot more training, a lot more responsibility, and a lot more work to become a pilot than a customer service agent. They also have to completely change their lifestyle because of the job. I've gotten into this before, so I'll save you some reading.

My salary pays my bills, I am a guy who lives within my means..
I am not disputing what you saying about what it takes become a pilot, they deserve a higher payscale then I do - but when your company is loosing millions you no longer deserve the highest payscale in the industry...

[screaming_emu]

My salary pays my bills, I am a guy who lives within my means..
I am not disputing what you saying about what it takes become a pilot, they deserve a higher payscale then I do - but when your company is loosing millions you no longer deserve the highest payscale in the industry...

I see your point, and it is a valid one. But now I ask, where do you draw the line? At what point in time do these paycuts become "too much"? I agree that everyone should live within their means, but taking almost half of someone's pay away redefines "within your means" in a huge huge way. The problems at delta are not caused primarily by paying people too much. I read somewhere that some airline (could have been delta) could pay their pilots absolutely nothing and they'd still be gushing money. People paying $99 to fly from coast to coast is what is causing this, and rather than fixing that problem, management is pissing off all of its workers. That's going to make Delta a really crappy airline to fly on as a customer. Just look at Northwest, its going to be exactly the same thing.

[DAL767-400ER]

I read somewhere that some airline (could have been delta) could pay their pilots absolutely nothing and they'd still be gushing money.

That would have been FlyI, and we all know what happened to them.

[screaming_emu]

That would have been FlyI, and we all know what happened to them.

yup, the guy who I just did a checkride with used to fly for them.

[FlyingPhotog]

Does anybody else think this is just a big game of "chicken" like NW just dealt with? And I think both sides expect the same result, an eventual compromise. I don't think those DL pilots would be stupid enough to take the whole company down with them.

[screaming_emu]

Does anybody else think this is just a big game of "chicken" like NW just dealt with?

probably

I don't think those DL pilots would be stupid enough to take the whole company down with them.

its that mindset that makes it easy for management to keep taking advantage of its workers.

[c0ex]

let me rephrase this. If you lived in the US and your company took away half of your pay, what would you do?

Then I would be paid $3.96-taxes an hour. Lol

[ACman]

I think that this isnt right, Look at the CEO of US, he took a $400,000 pay cut, now if the managment of DL started taking pay cuts, things would be different.

[FlyingPhotog]

its that mindset that makes it easy for management to keep taking advantage of its workers.

I'm definitely not arguing that management takes advantage of the workers. That's bsically their job. It's happening at every airline.

[DeltaFlyer]

I think that this isnt right, Look at the CEO of US, he took a $400,000 pay cut, now if the managment of DL started taking pay cuts, things would be different.

Everyone at Delta has taken pay cuts and benefit cuts...Even upper management...JG's base salary is 500k per year - last year he gave back about 50% of his salary which means the man running our company made less then some of our senior pilots...

When JG took over as CEO the pilots union told him that if he wanted them to work for LCC wages then he needed to work for LCC wages, well he is...

JG is also working without a contract, no golden parachute, no stock option bonus and no severence package should he be let go by the company...

[screaming_emu]

Here's my main issue with what is going on, and it has very very little to do with quality of life issues. Answer this question honestly, do you think that if at the time you applied for your job with Delta, if you knew you would be making 30-40% less than what they said, would you have taken it? Regardless of whether you would have, do you think the same co-workers you have would have taken the job? I highly doubt it.

Good, hard workers are going to be scared away by the the crap that is going on at most airlines. Regional airlines are hiring like mad right now, and its not only because they're flying more of the routes formerly flown by the majors, its because good, experienced pilots are goin "hah, you want me to work for how much? Eph you!" and moving on to different careers.

In their place, young, extremely inexperienced pilots are being hired to take their place. They're coming from some schools with some flat out scary operating practices. People who aren't trained to be safe pilots, but rather just to pass the test in order to meet the minimum standards put out by the FAA. The new crop of pilots are ones who see those glossy ads in various aviation magazines, al they want to do is be able to throw on a uniform and tell people "hey, i'm an airline pilot".

I see tons of these people come to UND, and not even make it through their private license, because they're not willing to go through the work to do it correctly. I'm not saying UND is the best school and that everybody who comes out of here are good, safe pilots. I'm just saying that there is a lot of crap that you have to go through here to get through the program, and you need to really "want it" to succeed. However, many of the other wannabees are still being hired by regional airlines because the management knows they will work for some rediculously low wages.

Bottom line, as more and more experienced, safe pilots leave, they will be replaced by low time pilots from your typical "you'll be in the right seat of an airliner in 300 hours!" flight school. Safety will suffer eventually. And I'll be here to say "yup, told ya".