DL Pilots Authorize Strike

[DAL767-400ER]

DL has taken money from their employees and has now announced they are going to revamp their parts of the ATL airport with whatever improvements their planning. Does the airport need improvements? Sure it does! Does it need to be improved on the backs of employees of a bankrupt company struggling for survival? Hell no!! That kind of spending needs to wait until the company is financially stable.

Just as an FYI: The airport authority will pay for most of the refurbishments, DL just get's to receive the praise for it.

[LRJet Guy]

Of course you'd buy the cheaper ticket. Why would you not? Especially in this day and age where Southwest is going to treat you better than Delta, or any legacy carrier.

The problem is that management at legacy carriers (gross generalization) have not reacted to the changes that have taken place in the industry, and now the labor groups at the airlines are paying the price for it through concessions and job insecurity. This has happened time after time.

Look at what happened with US. After 3 rounds of concessions we still had aweful management that hadn't changed a thing. Only the HP merger saved the airline, and as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out. Employee concessions are almost always greeted by a round of management bonuses, costly airport improvements at the airline's expense, and various assorted other things that infuriate the labor groups. NW and US both used money gained from concessions to pad the wallets of upper management. Two US CEOs came in, got money from the employees, and left the airline in a worse money situation than they started. Along with their wallets a few million fatter.

DL has taken money from their employees and has now announced they are going to revamp their parts of the ATL airport with whatever improvements their planning. Does the airport need improvements? Sure it does! Does it need to be improved on the backs of employees of a bankrupt company struggling for survival? Hell no!! That kind of spending needs to wait until the company is financially stable.

After watching other airlines and employee groups go through bankruptcy, concessions, little change in the airline's structure, and management's spending, what should the DL pilots do? The fact is there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. We're not going to finance management's stupidity any more.

[eagle334]

One aspect I have not seen mentioned here is people like us. How many of us have decided not to take the $49 Southwest funfare to Des Moines and said "No, I know Delta is struggling so I'm going to pay the $358 to fly them instead." This is where Delta management need to re-think things. Just like Delta hurting for cash, so am I and I will fly the cheapest major airline to get where I need to go.

[AA 1818]

If we flew the airplane like management ran the company, the NTSB would be very busy...

LMAO!

Ok, now I get it. I knew that there was more at play here than just pay. Thanks for bringing up that aspect of the negotiations. Now, I understand it a bit better and I am beginning to see it from your point-of-view. Thanks man. BTW, I HATE WHEN THAT HAPPENS! Haha, you think that you are going to be flying on a Md-80 and get to the gate to see a CRJ. It has happened a few times too many.

[LRJet Guy]

There's more to that dispute than just pay. Way more. DL wants nearly unlimited scope relaxation. They want to do what US has done and park mainline aircraft to bring in more 70 seat RJs and then get the 90 seaters on the property. This means fewer mainlne jobs, and even fewer upgrades. It also means degraded service to the customers. (Try getting on a US flight that has been overrun with a 90 seat RJ).

From a pilot perspective, I can tell you that most, if not all of us at any given airline will give up a little paycheck to protect our job and our airline. All of the legacy carriers have done this. When you ask us to give up flying, that's when its time to kiss our collective asses.

History has shown that you can get your money back when the airline is doing well, but you can't get the flying back to a 73 or MD80 when you let the company outsource it to a 70 or 90 seat RJ. That is gone for good.

Also, take a look at the best example DL pilots have to follow. I would say USAir. Management took 3 rounds of concessions from all of its labor groups, and if not for the HP merger, we'd all be on the street anyway. If we flew the airplane like management ran the company, the NTSB would be very busy...

[AA 1818]

The problem here is this - Yes, pilots deserve a high pay, and in an ideal world, they would be paid according to what they deserve.

But here is the real world scenario: DL is having a rough couple of years, all of the employees are taking pay-cuts, the pilots hold some level of control (where they know that if/when they strike it will most adversly affect the airline), and they are being given a decision -

Compromise a bit = take a pay cut = make the Upper Management happy so that they will be easier, more eager, happier and friendlier in the future to deal with = save the airline (hundreds of thousands of jobs) = set a good example for the rest of the industry = keep a job (even though it stinks for now) and know that when things pick up in the future, so will your salary. a.k.a the mature, respectable, and admirable response...

OR

Think about yourself = bit*h and moan about the current sittutation knowing that your other option would be to have no job, or work for a commuter airline where your expertise, experience and years of service mean nothing, and your paycheck will much lower than you have now and is still subject to pay cuts, or work for another airline where you will have to start from scratch as a new employee = strike and go against all of the other employees that took their paycuts with dignity and still continue to work with all of the grace that they have been working with for years = ruin the lives of hundreds of thousands of people all across the globe so that you can keep you salary for a just month more = or if you don't ruin the airline, piss off the Upper Management to the point that they decide to make those paycuts permenant and treat you like crap until this whole "bad time for DL" runs out = embarass the U.S. Aviation Industry by protesting = and above it all know that your protest will probably mean that even if you do get what you want, i.e. the same pay that you always got, you are going to ruin the airline that you claim to "love to work for".
a.k.a the immature, selfish and probable solution...

Choose wisely

[expoITHscohen]

I am with Emu on this one. Pilots do deserve to be payed a certain amount, mainly because they work so much harder to get to where they are. However they should not be paid at an extrem amount. People need to know where to draw the line. What I believe that is becoming more realistic for pilots now, a few companies are having starting wages around the same price as a 10 year vet for an airline. If that 10 year veteran has to take another cut, why should he stick with an airline that pays him less then if he just quits his current airline and starts all over on senority again?

Also, take into consideration Darwin's Theory and Social Darwanism. Are the pilots really going to feel that bad for 1000s of people losing their jobs? Maybe a few hours or so but they are just trying to do what is best for them. Pilots are lucky because they are hired (esspically after along time in service) faster then most other airline workers. If you see this in the pilots eye, this might be better for them in the long run.

Honestly though, I don't think Delta Pilot's will end up striking. It might be interesting if the pilots tested the market for jobs, but if they realized, they are probably not going to be better off. Most airlines seem to work through these problems and it only seems like a matter of time till the contracts are back in order.

[screaming_emu]

Here's my main issue with what is going on, and it has very very little to do with quality of life issues. Answer this question honestly, do you think that if at the time you applied for your job with Delta, if you knew you would be making 30-40% less than what they said, would you have taken it? Regardless of whether you would have, do you think the same co-workers you have would have taken the job? I highly doubt it.

Good, hard workers are going to be scared away by the the crap that is going on at most airlines. Regional airlines are hiring like mad right now, and its not only because they're flying more of the routes formerly flown by the majors, its because good, experienced pilots are goin "hah, you want me to work for how much? Eph you!" and moving on to different careers.

In their place, young, extremely inexperienced pilots are being hired to take their place. They're coming from some schools with some flat out scary operating practices. People who aren't trained to be safe pilots, but rather just to pass the test in order to meet the minimum standards put out by the FAA. The new crop of pilots are ones who see those glossy ads in various aviation magazines, al they want to do is be able to throw on a uniform and tell people "hey, i'm an airline pilot".

I see tons of these people come to UND, and not even make it through their private license, because they're not willing to go through the work to do it correctly. I'm not saying UND is the best school and that everybody who comes out of here are good, safe pilots. I'm just saying that there is a lot of crap that you have to go through here to get through the program, and you need to really "want it" to succeed. However, many of the other wannabees are still being hired by regional airlines because the management knows they will work for some rediculously low wages.

Bottom line, as more and more experienced, safe pilots leave, they will be replaced by low time pilots from your typical "you'll be in the right seat of an airliner in 300 hours!" flight school. Safety will suffer eventually. And I'll be here to say "yup, told ya".

[DeltaFlyer]

I think that this isnt right, Look at the CEO of US, he took a $400,000 pay cut, now if the managment of DL started taking pay cuts, things would be different.

Everyone at Delta has taken pay cuts and benefit cuts...Even upper management...JG's base salary is 500k per year - last year he gave back about 50% of his salary which means the man running our company made less then some of our senior pilots...

When JG took over as CEO the pilots union told him that if he wanted them to work for LCC wages then he needed to work for LCC wages, well he is...

JG is also working without a contract, no golden parachute, no stock option bonus and no severence package should he be let go by the company...

[FlyingPhotog]

its that mindset that makes it easy for management to keep taking advantage of its workers.

I'm definitely not arguing that management takes advantage of the workers. That's bsically their job. It's happening at every airline.

[ACman]

I think that this isnt right, Look at the CEO of US, he took a $400,000 pay cut, now if the managment of DL started taking pay cuts, things would be different.

[c0ex]

let me rephrase this. If you lived in the US and your company took away half of your pay, what would you do?

Then I would be paid $3.96-taxes an hour. Lol

[screaming_emu]

Does anybody else think this is just a big game of "chicken" like NW just dealt with?

probably

I don't think those DL pilots would be stupid enough to take the whole company down with them.

its that mindset that makes it easy for management to keep taking advantage of its workers.

[FlyingPhotog]

Does anybody else think this is just a big game of "chicken" like NW just dealt with? And I think both sides expect the same result, an eventual compromise. I don't think those DL pilots would be stupid enough to take the whole company down with them.

[screaming_emu]

That would have been FlyI, and we all know what happened to them.

yup, the guy who I just did a checkride with used to fly for them.