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Is Pratt and Whitney going to fall out of the "big 3" engine makers?

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  • Is Pratt and Whitney going to fall out of the "big 3" engine makers?

    Hi,

    About 20 years ago, PW engines used to be very popular, but in recent years PW engines have fallen out favor. On the Boeing 777-200ER, the PW 4090 engine (91,000 lbs of thrust) fell out favor because it was less powerful than the GE90-94B or the RR Trent 895, which produce about 93,000-94,000 lbs of thrust. In addition, PW's next-gen engine for the Boeing 787 was rejected and PW's most recent engines have been produced in partnerships with GE (GP 7200) and RR (IAE V2500).

    Will PW engines continue to fall out of favor as airlines continue to buy RR and GE engines or PW eventually manage to come back?

    Rohan

  • #2
    On widebodies, I'd say P&W doesn't really stand a chance. GE has market domination with Boeing widebodies, and RR with Airbus, and the rest of orders is essentially just the other way around.
    IMHO, the only way P&W will be back big in the business, they had better come up with a new super-efficient next-generation engine for the 737 and/or A320 successor, or else they don't stand a chance.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by DAL767-400ER
      IMHO, the only way P&W will be back big in the business, they had better come up with a new super-efficient next-generation engine for the 737 and/or A320 successor, or else they don't stand a chance.
      That's exactly what I was thinking. So what was P&W doing when GE and RR were investing in R&D and improoving their designs. Seems to me that they fell behind, and they never really played catch-up while the other raced ahead. Apart from that, don't they produce great fighter-jet engines for Boeing and Lockheed?
      Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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      • #4
        they fell behind since the 787 rejection, and the 777 with the most gas happy engine i think, only united can save them, haha. p&w is too busy at work with their geared turbofan for regional to short/mid range narrowbodies, which they claim is super efficent, but its been kinda quiet, i think they have some issues/bugs to solve

        yes i am a boeing fan, and i know thats a airbus, haha

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        • #5
          There was an article about this some months ago, that PW stepping down from the Widebody engine market, leaving it solely for GE and RR. PW downgraded themeselves to the narrowbody airliners. A major setback for PW when they kinda lost in the competition. PW is still in the business but disguised under GEs brand (GP7200) Will they ever be in the "big 3" category again ? Who knows ?! In time when they get back into the market again, RR and GE has probably designed a better, more prowerful engines, taking them on a higher step, and that sadly kicks PW, tumbling down the ladder yet again..
          Inactive from May 1 2009.

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          • #6
            Hi,

            I agree that PW really hurt themselves with the PW4090 engine for the Boeing 777-200ER because it produces less power and burns slightly more fuel than the GE90 and the RR Trent 895. However, RR really struggled to sell its engines on the Boeing 767 and the Boeing 747, but the engine maker is doing pretty well, so I think that PW could maybe bounce back. Currently the company just finished the PW 6000 engine for the Airbus A318 and its selling kind of well, so maybe PW might be able to make a re-entry into the market. As for UA, I think they will most likely go with GE engines on the next generation of aircraft.

            Rohan

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            • #7
              but if p&w can gain the jt8d successor engine on the next 737 replacement engine, they win big time

              yes i am a boeing fan, and i know thats a airbus, haha

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              • #8
                P&W can continue to make awesome lawnmower and go-kart engines
                You've got to try to find what's right before your eyes-Finger Eleven


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                • #9
                  How many airlines operate PW engined 744 and 777? I can only think of United and China Airlines for the 747.

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                  • #10
                    For the 744:
                    Air China, Air India, China Airlines, EL AL, Korean, Malaysian, Northwest, Singapore, United . Air Canada and Mandarin used to operate them. China Southern uses 2 744Fs with PW engines.
                    For the 777:
                    Air China, ANA, Asiana, Egyptair, JAL, Korean, United, Vietnam. JAS used to operate them. ILFC also has a few, not sure with whome those are operating, though.
                    ^All those are the airlines that took delivery fresh from Boeing, don't know about second-hand operators.

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                    • #11
                      PW was pretty successful on the Boeing 747-400, but the major blow to PW on the 777 was when Singapore Airlines, traditionally a PW customer, went with the RR engines. In my opinion had Singapore Airlines gone with the PW engines on the Boeing 777, the PW 4090 engines would have been much more successful. Overall, PW might do better in the "narrow body" market because these planes tend to sell a lot more than their "wide body" counterparts. The Boeing 787 and the Airbus A350 were HUGE disasters for PW, but I think the company might make a second attempt on these next generation aircraft.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DAL767-400ER
                        On widebodies, I'd say P&W doesn't really stand a chance. GE has market domination with Boeing widebodies, and RR with Airbus, and the rest of orders is essentially just the other way around.
                        IMHO, the only way P&W will be back big in the business, they had better come up with a new super-efficient next-generation engine for the 737 and/or A320 successor, or else they don't stand a chance.
                        Slowly but surely set to keep company to Wright Engines. The latter's ghosts will clamor "sweet revenge" as P&W wrote its name by coming out with the WaspMajors line of powerplants and altogether jettisoned Wright down to history when switching to jet engines ....
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