Ideas for TAM Airlines routes - what if it tried the following?

[Vincentomoh]

With a Varig pull-out from many Europe routes, TAM Airlines seems to have an advantage.

Varig *ought* to add Sao Paulo-Rome and Rio de Janeiro-Frankfurt. But I thought of a few others.

In addition I like the following ideas:
* Sao Paulo-Los Angeles-Nagoya - It could serve three markets (GRU-NGO, GRU-LAX, LAX-NGO) with the same flight
* Sao Paulo-New York JFK-Osaka - Since NYC does not have Osaka TAM could serve Osaka using a similar strategy to Nagoya
* Sao Paulo-Johannesburg
* Sao Paulo-Lisbon-Seoul
* Sao Paulo-Sydney
* Sao Paulo-Auckland
* Sao Paulo-Lagos (Nigeria has large oil trade)

[AA 1818]

I think that TAM can really do well with certain routes such as more routes to Portugal (to run competition against TAP) but then again, with them on the verge of joining Star that may not be wise. The following need to be considered:

Atlanta - the competition against DL could possibly drive prices down, and with the large market of Brazilians living in ATL (especially in Marietta) I am sure that the airline could support (for the very least) 3X weekly service.

Los Angles - they need to pick up at least one west-coast destination. Seeing that LAX is so large, I am sure that they can funnel passengers through one hub on the way home to Brazil.

Toronto - I know that AC is a star member, but come on, at least one flight daily would work out well for them.

Cali, Bogota, Medellin, or Baranquilla - at least somewhere in Colombia. I know that Avianca has that market well cornered, but there they (TAM) flies to almost all other major destiantions within the continent - it needs to be considered.

Hong Kong - just to be bold.

Tokyo - the large Japanese ex-pat. community (the largest in the world btw...) need connection to Brazil in some way. This would be a great way to get those A345s stretching their legs.

Sydney - if both LAN and Aerolinas Argentinas can make the route work, then why not TAM. I would surely like to see them take up the routes (either on their own merit - or connecting via NZ).

[Vincentomoh]

Hong Kong - just to be bold.

Tokyo - the large Japanese ex-pat. community (the largest in the world btw...) need connection to Brazil in some way. This would be a great way to get those A345s stretching their legs.

1. I wonder what stopover city is the best for a TAM GRU-HKG route. Would Addis Ababa work? What about Nairobi?

2. How would TAM get slots at NRT?

[DAL767-400ER]

* Sao Paulo-Los Angeles-Nagoya - It could serve three markets (GRU-NGO, GRU-LAX, LAX-NGO) with the same flight
* Sao Paulo-New York JFK-Osaka - Since NYC does not have Osaka TAM could serve Osaka using a similar strategy to Nagoya

Not gonna happen. While there should be a market for, say 3x weekly service, it would be unattractive due to the US immigration rules. Pax on the flight can't just stay onboard the plane, but rather have to go through immigration, security and all that, meaning some 2 hours of hassle for the pax, and an unnecessarily long stop for the airline

[Vincentomoh]

The reason why I thought that a USA stop would still work is that I noticed Japan Airlines still routes its Brazil flight through the United States.

If TAM does not want it routed through the USA it could try Lisbon. How would Lisbon work?

Not gonna happen. While there should be a market for, say 3x weekly service, it would be unattractive due to the US immigration rules. Pax on the flight can't just stay onboard the plane, but rather have to go through immigration, security and all that, meaning some 2 hours of hassle for the pax, and an unnecessarily long stop for the airline

[AA 1818]

If TAM does not want it routed through the USA it could try Lisbon. How would Lisbon work?

I guess that that could work as well, but also, MEX could work. With the US Immigration/Visa sittutation - you are going to see (or rather, you are already seeing a myriad of weird routings. For example, TAM may see fit to open a new overseas hub (similar to AI @ MUC) and route longer flights through it. Lisbon would be a great idea - but that would put them running a majority of their competition against TAP, (for their flights homeward bound, as well as their flights to the far east...). Another location may be in order, maybe somplace in Europe (or maybe Canada), or Mexico, or anyplace but the US (due to the VISA sittutation) that would cater to the range of the A330s and the A340s and their coming 773s and allow them to get to Asia (and Australia and/or NZ).

Weirdly - GRU-MEX-NRT and GRU-LIS-NRT is about the same distance.

GRU - MEX : 4613 nm.
MEX - NRT : 7004 nm.

and

GRU - LIS : 4915 nm.
LIS - NRT : 6946 nm.

[Vincentomoh]

If TAM is able to get equipment to make a MEX-NRT nonstop work (provided TAM got slots at NRT), it would be a wonderful idea. It could compete with JL on multiple levels and also compete against Aeromexico.

I guess that that could work as well, but also, MEX could work. With the US Immigration/Visa sittutation - you are going to see (or rather, you are already seeing a myriad of weird routings. For example, TAM may see fit to open a new overseas hub (similar to AI @ MUC) and route longer flights through it. Lisbon would be a great idea - but that would put them running a majority of their competition against TAP, (for their flights homeward bound, as well as their flights to the far east...). Another location may be in order, maybe somplace in Europe (or maybe Canada), or Mexico, or anyplace but the US (due to the VISA sittutation) that would cater to the range of the A330s and the A340s and their coming 773s and allow them to get to Asia (and Australia and/or NZ).

Weirdly - GRU-MEX-NRT and GRU-LIS-NRT is about the same distance.

GRU - MEX : 4613 nm.
MEX - NRT : 7004 nm.

and

GRU - LIS : 4915 nm.
LIS - NRT : 6946 nm.

[uy707]

In this case, a GRU-DXB-NRT could also be considered

[DAL767-400ER]

In this case, a GRU-DXB-NRT could also be considered

Against Emirates? Hah, good luck with that .

[uy707]

May also pick up either Abu Dhabi or Doha

[Vincentomoh]

May also pick up either Abu Dhabi or Doha

IMO Abu Dhabi would be the best if TAM wishes to route a Japan route through the Arabian peninsula.

[badboys777]

I would love to see TAM Come to SYD!

Regards,

GJ

[Vincentomoh]

For something somewhat related to the Japan routes, some guy on A.Net asked why JAL operates the GRU-JFK-NRT route (He didn't seem to understand that it would be impossible for an airline to profitably operate GRU-NRT nonstop): http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/3829978/

Maybe TAM's codeshare via Europe instead of JFK is an indication that the airline would rather route its own Japan flights via Europe - I'm not entirely sure, though.

[TAP-A343]

Not gonna happen. While there should be a market for, say 3x weekly service, it would be unattractive due to the US immigration rules. Pax on the flight can't just stay onboard the plane, but rather have to go through immigration, security and all that, meaning some 2 hours of hassle for the pax, and an unnecessarily long stop for the airline

That was exactly why the "old" RG dropped its GRU-LAX-NRT route when it was still flying to all its international destinations. Moreover, Brazilians need a visa to enter the US which is not the case in the EU countries.

Given the conservative attitude to expansion that TAM has shown so far, I could see TAP connecting Brazilian pax to the Far East earlier than TAM.

There are rumours that TAP is considering routes like LIS-BOM and LIS-PEK to connect Brazilian pax.

* Sao Paulo-Lisbon-Seoul
* Sao Paulo-Lagos (Nigeria has large oil trade)

I doubt there's much demand for GRU-ICN, for sure almost none for LIS-ICN.

And I think Luanda, Angola would be a better destination for TAM than Lagos, Nigeria. I believe TAAG has a very successful route with LAD-GIG. There are many Brazilian oil related investments in Angola.

[AR342]

Sydney - if both LAN and Aerolinas Argentinas can make the route work, then why not TAM. I would surely like to see them take up the routes (either on their own merit - or connecting via NZ).

Actually the market is not that big. LAN and AR both receive lots of brazilian pax connecting to their AKL-SYD flights, and not the most high-yielding pax but lots of students and tourists...

Besides, QF has announced resuming service to SCL from NOV08. I think the market will be quite saturated by then.