Ideas for TAM Airlines routes - what if it tried the following?

[AA 1818]

As for India - I can think that traffic to BOM might be the only profitable routes for them, but even that is a long-shot. While there might be some, albeit small demand, the issue arrises that many other carriers provide services that would compete with TAM, each with their own pre-established customer bases and with their convenient connections to other areas. Even within Star the Indian market is preety saturated - citing LH's already large presence, and with the addition of AI soon - I think that TAM will probably cite the lower costs/better relations of operating a codeshare with AI to European hub in order to connect passengers onto TAM's mainline fleet. It would be great to see TAM flying to BOM, DEL or any of the other cities though. The only odd route that might have made sense (but that it preety much also a slim shot) would have been the flights to Goa. Goa still retains a distinctly Portuguese feel to it, and the linguistic and grammatical distinctions are still there. But, in reality - Goa is a tourist destination, and offers amenities that are paralleled by Brazilian destinations.

As for your idea of routing flights through Africa - even though logistically, the route seems efficent - security-wise it might be a nightmare. I am still unsure as to whether the average person would feel safe communting through central Africa. For a relitavely long time, things had been a nightmare in all of Central Africa, with few exceptions (Kenya being one of them), but recently things have taken a turn for the worse. Even though stopping in Africa would be great for the length, feul restrictions, I doubt that it would be a prudent stop while connecting.

The only way that I could think of is that TAM could serve Kenya, or another nation within central Africa if the oil industry called for the route. As for equipment to serve the route - we may not need the A345s, for I doubt that the demand will be that high. For the route, TAM could probably convert one of their aircarft to an all-business class layout (one of the smaller A32Xs), and use it in that config.



*** Umm *** I am unsure as to why - but for some reason, JNB (Johannesburg, South Africa) has eluded me as an option. It could be a great stop for them, all things considered - relitavely safe, no visa requirements, along the best route and they would be able to share with another Star alliance partner (SAA). Accordign to circle mapper -

With: GRU-JNB being 4630 Miles, and with GIG-JNB being 4451 Miles.

Then:
JNB - HKG: 6631 Miles.
JNB - NRT: 8438 Miles.
JNB - SYD: 6892 Miles.
JNB - AKL: 7575 Miles.
JNB - SIN: 5381 Miles.
JNB - BOM: 4319 Miles.

Not too bad, and even if they do not do the routes on their own metal, I am sure that they can easily codeshare with SAA.

[PP-VRA]

*** Umm *** I am unsure as to why - but for some reason, JNB (Johannesburg, South Africa) has eluded me as an option. It could be a great stop for them, all things considered - relitavely safe, no visa requirements, along the best route and they would be able to share with another Star alliance partner (SAA). Accordign to circle mapper -

With: GRU-JNB being 4630 Miles, and with GIG-JNB being 4451 Miles.

Then:
JNB - HKG: 6631 Miles.
JNB - NRT: 8438 Miles.
JNB - SYD: 6892 Miles.
JNB - AKL: 7575 Miles.
JNB - SIN: 5381 Miles.
JNB - BOM: 4319 Miles.

Not too bad, and even if they do not do the routes on their own metal, I am sure that they can easily codeshare with SAA.

JNB appeared in their plans a while ago but appears that it's been postponed indefinetly. As for SYD and AKL: those could be served straight from Brazil with their A345s.

[Vincentomoh]

Speaking of Canada as a stopover, I wonder if Montreal would make sense for a TAM stopover to Narita? No airline currently serves Brazil from Montreal. Does the city have strong business ties to Brazil?

As for your idea of routing flights through Africa - even though logistically, the route seems efficent - security-wise it might be a nightmare. I am still unsure as to whether the average person would feel safe communting through central Africa. For a relitavely long time, things had been a nightmare in all of Central Africa, with few exceptions (Kenya being one of them), but recently things have taken a turn for the worse. Even though stopping in Africa would be great for the length, feul restrictions, I doubt that it would be a prudent stop while connecting.

I understand that Kenya is having unrest right now - Hopefully that will subside soon. Anyhow, Ethiopia has had famines and conflict with Eritrea but I think the country is doing fine right now.

[AA 1818]

Speaking of Canada as a stopover, I wonder if Montreal would make sense for a TAM stopover to Narita? No airline currently serves Brazil from Montreal. Does the city have strong business ties to Brazil?

I think that if business ties were strong enough - there would be flight pre-established. I mean, in restrospect - it does seems weird that there are no flights linking Montreal to any Brazilian cities. As for TAM - that is the major disadvantage for joining Star - in that there are very very very few oppurtunities to expand as a carrier and not step onto the toes of other alliance members (in that by expanding - you are going to encroach onto their most profitable routes). It suck as times, but I guess for TAM, it makes sense to not grow as quickly and rely upon alliance members. Now, back on-topic - the route to Montreal probably has little demand, and coupled with the fact that AC probably has all of demand tapped into flying to YYZ in order to get to Brazil, I doubt that it would make sense for them to do the route. I was wondering - does an A32X have the capacity to make it to Brazil from Canada? I know that AC pushes their A320 (IIRC) preety hard to get them to POS (with a 5.5 hr trip - IIRC). Otherwise, the A330s will have to make the legs...

[PP-VRA]

I think that if business ties were strong enough - there would be flight pre-established. I mean, in restrospect - it does seems weird that there are no flights linking Montreal to any Brazilian cities. As for TAM - that is the major disadvantage for joining Star - in that there are very very very few oppurtunities to expand as a carrier and not step onto the toes of other alliance members (in that by expanding - you are going to encroach onto their most profitable routes). It suck as times, but I guess for TAM, it makes sense to not grow as quickly and rely upon alliance members. Now, back on-topic - the route to Montreal probably has little demand, and coupled with the fact that AC probably has all of demand tapped into flying to YYZ in order to get to Brazil, I doubt that it would make sense for them to do the route. I was wondering - does an A32X have the capacity to make it to Brazil from Canada? I know that AC pushes their A320 (IIRC) preety hard to get them to POS (with a 5.5 hr trip - IIRC). Otherwise, the A330s will have to make the legs...

That's the point. The YUL market is catered via YYZ. Personally I think that YVR has more chances of receiving a service to Brazil than YUL because of connections to Asia.

But if you ask me, I'd say that the best chance of AC earning big bucks in Brazil with a new flight is starting to serve GIG.

As for the A320s, YUL-GRU/GIG is around 4400nm (great circle), too much for the 320s.

[Gugasounds]

Maybe they could try GRU-CUN or GRU-MTY, i think flights to cancun and monterrey from sao paulo would be successful.

[PP-VRA]

Maybe they could try GRU-CUN or GRU-MTY, i think flights to cancun and monterrey from sao paulo would be successful.

GRU-Mexico is served by 3 airlines. Too much if you ask me. There isn't market for a 4th carrier. The only exception, I think, would be CUN but no more than 2 weekly flights.

[AA 1818]

I still think that TAM's U.S. network is so very limited. I understand that many American carriers serve Brazil - thus limiting the market for them, but there are many cities that can still be served such as ATL, LAX, SFO, IAD, FLL (but with the proximity to Miami, that might be difficult - but hey - Avianca does it so...), ORD and others.

Maybe in time, we can also start considering pairing destionations that are not as typical. Brazil's population is not just split between GIG and GRU, a fact that TAP has taken full advantage of - by connecting other airports to Portugal. Maybe we can see Brasilia, Manaus, Belem, Porto Velho, Fortaleza, Recife, Natal, and Porto Alegre getting more international services. I know that most of my Brazilian friends are inconveninced by having to travel home via a stop in GIG and/or GRU. They simply need more options. That said, I know that entering Star Alliance can and will be a stifiling move for them. They are in expansion mode, and entereing a well populated alliance that has flights that are pre-established into your network, would be counter-intuitive. TAP will not budge, as Brazil has become incredibly lucrative for them. To think that they will sacrifice profit to usher greater Alliance stability is unintelligent. I would think that entering into either SkyTeam or OneWorld would be a better bet for them. SkyTeam would be a better fit citing the fact that SkyTeam's presence in South America is slim, and they do not possess a South American member. As for OneWorld, AA's presence is significant, and so if LAN's but it is still a better move, for sake of expansion, over Star...

[PP-VRA]

I still think that TAM's U.S. network is so very limited. I understand that many American carriers serve Brazil - thus limiting the market for them, but there are many cities that can still be served such as ATL, LAX, SFO, IAD, FLL (but with the proximity to Miami, that might be difficult - but hey - Avianca does it so...), ORD and others.

After joining *A, I can see a LAX service with TAM. Also they'll begin two new flights to the US: GIG-MIA and GIG-JFK. ATL I don't think would be successful without any sort of agreement with DL, which I think won't happen given JJ's proximity to Star.

Maybe in time, we can also start considering pairing destionations that are not as typical. Brazil's population is not just split between GIG and GRU, a fact that TAP has taken full advantage of - by connecting other airports to Portugal. Maybe we can see Brasilia, Manaus, Belem, Porto Velho, Fortaleza, Recife, Natal, and Porto Alegre getting more international services.

As I suggested before I'm sure that the airline that connects MIA to CNF, SSA, BSB and REC will make lots of money. JJ proves that with their daily MAO-MIA flight with the 320.

I know that most of my Brazilian friends are inconveninced by having to travel home via a stop in GIG and/or GRU. They simply need more options.

I'd remove GIG from this statement because between 80 and 85% of Brazil's international air traffic is at GRU a ridiculous concentration if you ask me. Brazil needs more options out of GRU. GIG needs new services to cities like London, NY, Milan, Johanesburg, Bogota, Lima, Caracas, Montevideo and so on. Large markets like CNF, BSB and the brazilian northeast need flights to the US and Europe. TP's venture on these places prove that there is "life" outside GRU, fact neglected by most airlines.

I would think that entering into either SkyTeam or OneWorld would be a better bet for them. SkyTeam would be a better fit citing the fact that SkyTeam's presence in South America is slim, and they do not possess a South American member. As for OneWorld, AA's presence is significant, and so if LAN's but it is still a better move, for sake of expansion, over Star...

I think TAM would be a perfect fit for Skyteam but guess they'll have to keep looking for a South American partner.

[Vincentomoh]

PP-VRA, I also agree that other Brazilian cities need service to Miami - MIA-Brazil flights to other cities will help relieve traffic into Guarulhos and Galeao. It would also make Brazil more convenient for Americans (I.E. from Miami I could fly into Fortaleza instead of having to go to Manaus and then Fortaleza)

[Vincentomoh]

Some people brought up some good possibilities on PP-VRA's forum - The discussion here http://forum.contatoradar.com.br/ind...2&#entry225582 is in English even though most posts on the forum are in Portuguese.

One person suggested Chicago for TAM - I agree and I noticed that nobody serves GIG-ORD. If TAM joins Star ORD and IAD would be good as those routes can feed into UA routes.

[PP-VRA]

Some people brought up some good possibilities on PP-VRA's forum - The discussion here http://forum.contatoradar.com.br/ind...2&#entry225582 is in English even though most posts on the forum are in Portuguese.

One person suggested Chicago for TAM - I agree and I noticed that nobody serves GIG-ORD. If TAM joins Star ORD and IAD would be good as those routes can feed into UA routes.

True that nobody serves ORD-GIG but TAM would never flight first to a new destination from GIG. Their main focus is and will always be SAO.

I can see UA flying this route first but not in the short term.

[AA 1818]

Yes, while UA would be intelligent to bring flights to GIG from ORD, their current sittuation is not conducive to such an action. Sadly, now is time for action and expansion for TAM. It's necessary that they seixe these markets in the wake of weaknesses and failures of other airlines. I dislike the idea that they are considering entering star alliance (see previous posts) but I think that of they are to do so, then they need to enter the feild soon. IAD and ORD can be incredibly profitable for them, but they need to spring into action soon, lest other carriers (whether they be American or Brazilian) tap into the same market. While Varig is in a weakened state, it does have the potential to resume it's past glory. Rather than wait for that to take place, and await to be returned to 'the Brazilian underdog' - they should capitilize on their current status, and strength.