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  • New Engines key to AA's Fleet Renewal

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...al-growth.html I figure that they will get the 787 but they are doing there job by also looking into the A350. But I figure that they will go with the 787 because A. They do have a lot of flexability from Boeing e.g. The Move up of the 738 orders. B. They don't have to pay for new Pilot Training (Then again that haesn't stopped other Airlines from Changing C. The A350 is still only a design on Paper. I believe AA has looked at Airbus before specifically the A345, but I highly doubt we will see a A350 in AA Paint anytime soon, but I could see it as a possibility.
    John Poshepny

    If the Wright brother were alive today Wilbur would have to fire Orville to reduce costs.— Herb Kelleher, Southwest Airlines, 'USA Today,' 1994

  • #2
    I don't see why AA would bother to consider buying from Airbus given their very strained relationship (to put it mildly) with them. So unless something changes at AA, this order will go to Boeing.

    This is more of a call to the engine OEMs with regards to the engine choice (the article specifically mentions narrowbody replacements).
    Audentes Fortuna Imperii

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    • #3
      Most definitely a boeing order. I can see 80+ Dreamliners and massive amounts of 737RS. Maybe even earlier, around one year or two, a 77W or 77L order might pop in.

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      • #4
        It's not the engines that are a key to AA's fleet renewal, it's getting a new agreement with APA that is key here, otherwise AA would have already ordered 787s quite some time ago to replace their aging 762s and A300s.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by AASuper80Fan
          I figure that they will get the 787 but they are doing there job by also looking into the A350.
          I believe AA has looked at Airbus before specifically the A345, but I highly doubt we will see a A350 in AA Paint anytime soon, but I could see it as a possibility.
          An Airbus A340-500 in AA colour scheme aaaah..... now that will be a sight to behold.

          Not sure about that ever happening though as they'd rather keep their Dollar$ within America rather than spend em outta US.

          Plus the weaker dollar dosent make things any easier does it ?

          Originally posted by LTU932
          I don't see why AA would bother to consider buying from Airbus given their very strained relationship (to put it mildly) with them.
          Also i'm not sure how strained, if at all AA's relationship is with Airbus. But again a very valid point is the savings that Boing claims airlines operating its airplanes can make by upgrading their Pilots & Crew to the 787 with minimal uptraining.

          Coming back to the engines bit.

          Original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) are hard at work on new-engine technology. Among these efforts, CFM International partners General Electric and Snecma are developing technology for both an advanced turbofan and an open-rotor engine, with a choice between those two architectures planned before the decade’s end. A 2018 entry into service is considered feasible. The open-rotor concept is also being pursued by Rolls-Royce. This technology, and the promise that this could give a 25% to 30% improvement in efficiency, “seems to be really a paradigm shift in fuel consumption”, says the American executive VP.
          25% to 30%
          Now if the winglets give a certain percentage savings in fuel economy, more specifically the specially engineered wing of the 787 coupled with these engines could be a great boon for aviation. If these engines really deliver on their promise that is !

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          • #6
            Originally posted by LTU932
            I don't see why AA would bother to consider buying from Airbus given their very strained relationship (to put it mildly) with them. So unless something changes at AA, this order will go to Boeing.
            How do you know AA has a "strained" relationship with Airbus?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ptbodale
              How do you know AA has a "strained" relationship with Airbus?
              I don't think that's any great secret.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by flyboy2548m
                I don't think that's any great secret.
                I don't know. I've never heard any big wig from AA say "I hate Airbus". AA is known for it's Boeing and Douglas products though.

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                • #9
                  I might be reading it the wrong way, but as I read it, they say that the will go with a limited number of 737-800s for them moemnt in the narrowbody fleet, but would place a big order on any next generation narrowbody product, that comes up around 2015-2018.

                  The 762s might be or will be replaced by 787s.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ptbodale
                    I don't know. I've never heard any big wig from AA say "I hate Airbus". AA is known for it's Boeing and Douglas products though.
                    AA and Airbus had a large dispute over AA587. American says the crash was Airbus' fault because the rudder pedals were too sensitive at high speed. On the other hand Airbus says that the carsh is American's fault because it's pilots were improperly trained about the characteristics of the rudder.

                    Also at AA the A300 has a very poor dispatch reliability rate. They need un scheduled mantinence routinley. The only reason AA tolerates them is because they carry a significant ammount of cargo.

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                    • #11
                      Every airline has it's pro Airbus and pro Boeing employees. I hear it all the time from the MTC guys. I was just pointing out that I've never heard the President of AA say "I hate Airbus". Also if AA dislikes the A300 so much I can't imagine them keeping an aircraft around because they like its cargo capacity.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ptbodale
                        Every airline has it's pro Airbus and pro Boeing employees. I hear it all the time from the MTC guys. I was just pointing out that I've never heard the President of AA say "I hate Airbus". Also if AA dislikes the A300 so much I can't imagine them keeping an aircraft around because they like its cargo capacity.
                        Ok then - let's consider the facts. Apart from the AA587 sittutation (which in itself is something that needs to be considered) how many other Airbus products does AA operate? I am sure that it was a known fact that the 727s needed to be replaced when they did - and I am sure that Airbus offered A32Xs at low prices in attempts to steal a potential 737 order, and yet no such luck. Further more, AA has the world's largest Md-80 fleet, Airbus has courted them with discounts in order to have AA use A32Xs over 737s. No such luck. AA's MX crews hate (and I use the world lightly) the A300 due strongly to reliabilty issues. I have personally spoken with crews at MIA, POS, JFK, and DFW (all at times when they used to handle the type) and none have had many good things to say about the aircraft. Now, as to why they are still in the fleet - they are niche aircraft. They operate the runs to the Caribbean (the "trunk routes") where we need high-capacity and as of such (due to the Caribbeaner syndrome of not travelling light) high cargo capacity as well. Apart from that, actual Cargo is extremely lucrative for AA as well. So, all of these things combine to make a very interesting sittutation for AA. What other aircraft can replace the A300s currently (without a new type being introduced)? Maybe 772s? But ordering new ones is incredibly expensive, and the wait time is extensive. Think of A300s @ AA as a family's old, beat-up station wagon/mini-van. No one likes it, but they keep it around b/c when the need to haul, it's there and it's paid for.
                        Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tecnanaut
                          AA and Airbus had a large dispute over AA587. American says the crash was Airbus' fault because the rudder pedals were too sensitive at high speed. On the other hand Airbus says that the carsh is American's fault because it's pilots were improperly trained about the characteristics of the rudder.
                          I believe there was also the issue that AA was beyond furious when their A300s were initially delivered in grey colours and not with the polished metal. Airbus had to re-skin the aircraft to make this possible, because the bonded primer Airbus uses doesn't allow a polished metal scheme. Just remember the A300s EA used, they were either painted in the Whisperliner scheme or in a grey variation of the Hockeystick scheme, never in bare metal.

                          [photoid=5729031]

                          [photoid=5894685]
                          Last edited by LTU932; 2008-02-21, 06:44.
                          Audentes Fortuna Imperii

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                          • #14
                            Well I guess no composites for AA Then

                            Drat I was hoping to get a Cirrus Sr-22 in polished metal to match the 787 AA scheme.
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                            • #15
                              Also IIRC AA has 787 slots available for about 2011-2013, long before they could get an A350.

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