All Nippon Airways to buy five A380s - Nikkei

[DAL767-400ER]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINT34839220080703?rpc=44

TOKYO, July 4 (Reuters) - All Nippon Airways Co (ANA) (9202.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) plans to buy five Airbus A380 jetliners, marking the first purchase by a Japanese airline of large aircraft from the European firm, the Nikkei business daily reported on Friday.

As surging fuel prices pressure airlines, ANA aims to save fuel by using the A380, which can carry more passengers on fewer flights, while delays in the delivery of Boeing Co's (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) 787 Dreamliner have also led ANA to consider purchasing A380s, the Nikkei said.

The firm is expected to make an official decision around September to buy the A380s, with the total price of five planes estimated at 100 billion yen ($936 million), the paper said.

I don't see the connection between a 250-seat plane that ANA wants primarily for domestic flights and a 450-seat plane that ANA wants for longhaul flights, but whatever.

[uy707]

1/Problems of energy are more accute in Japan than 90 % of other countries worldwide. Culminating with the storming of today's Indonesia by the Imperial Army, oil & minerals fueled the extension of WWII to the Pacific Area
2/Turn to Boeing in learning in doing the best in always keeping your Japanese client on your side
3/Ranging from slide swapping to aircraft purshase, a dissappointed Japanese can be WORST than anybody else to handle
list goes on

[TAP-A343]

If this turns out to be true it means more bad news for the B748i.

[chaser]

If there is nothing for the 748I at Farnborough, I think Boeing may bite the bullet on this one.

[DAL767-400ER]

If there is nothing for the 748I at Farnborough, I think Boeing may bite the bullet on this one.

And p!ss off Lufthansa? Fat chance of that happening :rolleyes: .

[tsv]

And p!ss off Lufthansa? Fat chance of that happening :rolleyes: .

There are probably other ways of appeasing LH, eg some sweet deals on some of their a/c that actually make sense in the market place.

Ultimately it will depend on how desperate LH is for the 747I and how expensive it will be for Boeing to produce a VLA which is destined to make bugger all sales.

I'm sure LH can live with a combination of A380 & 777/A350 for their VLA needs. But can they live with the time delays in getting these in lieu of the 747I?

Boeing must be getting nervous about this project. The silence on the order scene is deafening. I agree with Chaser, if there's no good orders for it at Farnborough it's time to cut and run.

[TAP-A343]

Boeing must be getting nervous about this project. The silence on the order scene is deafening. I agree with Chaser, if there's no good orders for it at Farnborough it's time to cut and run.

I do think that Boeing is not very pleased with the B748i's orders so far, but the pax version is based on the freighter that is selling relatively well and I can't imagine the extra cost of projecting the pax version to be so high that would make Boeing give up on the B748i.

[avro_arrow_25206]

2/Turn to Boeing in learning in doing the best in always keeping your Japanese client on your side

Sometimes it also makes good business sense just to change up order patterns once in a while, to keep suppliers honest.

[AA 1818]

I do think that Boeing is not very pleased with the B748i's orders so far, but the pax version is based on the freighter that is selling relatively well and I can't imagine the extra cost of projecting the pax version to be so high that would make Boeing give up on the B748i.

I agree with you here. For the most part - we need to remember that the costs of R/D costs, and other costs associated with the project are significantly lower than that of other aircraft types (it being an extension of the current 747 family) and so, the amount of sales needed to cover said costs would be lower thus leading to the understanding that they would need to sell less planes to cover their sunk costs (when compared to other types - e.x. the original 777 sales and the like). So, in reality - healthy sales on the Cargo versions (and remember their version of healhty is much lower numerically than we are accustomed to) will probably funnel into the few handpicked orders for the passenger version.

Now, I still stand by my statements in previous threads in which I stated that I do not think that the 747-8 and the A380 were meant to be direct competiors. I could even go as far as saying that the 747 and the 777-300 are more accuretely matched as competitors. But, I think that Boeing was hoping to sail the wave of dissatisfied A380 customers (who had recived notices of delays earlier in the program) and/or 747 operators (who would have been attracted to the ease of certification). But there are two things that now stand in the face of those ideas - the superior feul preformance of the 777 (being a twin-engined) over a 747 (a quad.) put it at a serious disadvnatage. The A380's teething problems now over (and aircraft being delivered to key customers) also hit Boeing on the head.

Do I see other 747-8I orders in the future? Maybe one or two, but in small quantities. Will Boeing produce it? Most definately.

[hansonator69]

Screw Lufthansa! Boeing can kill the 748i (just to get LH annoyed and mad )

[AA 1818]

You know - something else that we have yet to consider - this order is (or rather, will) only be for 5 airplanes (if sources proove to be correct). This order will in no way be apt for a replacement of their 747 fleet. If I suspect correcly - maybe ANA will be using these aircraft as domestic (High Density) layouts for intra-Japanese routes? I think that if ANA wanted to place an order for a 747 replacement - then they surely would have ordered more than 5, no?

[DAL767-400ER]

Well, as some expected, Nikkei appearantly jumped the gun:

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=7%2F9%2F2008

ANA confirmed to ATWOnline that it has not yet decided to order the A380 as widely reported late last week and in fact has not even issued an RFP. A spokesperson told this website that the airline set up a New Aircraft Selection Committee last week to examine both the A380 and the 747-8. "No RFPs have gone out yet," the spokesperson said, adding that ANA will decide among the 747-8, the A380 or continuing to build its long-haul fleet around the 777-300ER.

[AA 1818]

So, as is more than likely - this was a move to get Boeing to offer lower prices on a future 773 order for ANA? Or perhaps, a lower price for the 747-8I?

[DAL767-400ER]

Probably a little bit of everything:
-Cheaper 77Ws as a low-end 744 replacement
-Cheaper 748Is as an upper-end 744 replacement
-Way cheaper 763s as a 787-delay compensation

[Schorsch]

Boeing has reduced its sales outlook for the B747-8I to less than 100 aircraft. For an airline, especially a big one, a B747-8I will always be an isolated solution without any commonality to either aircraft type.

As airline you basically have the choice of taking smaller aircraft like B777-300ER and A350-1000 and just don't focus on high capacity. That is a safe approach.
The other option is to take the A380 and fill it with passengers. Especially considering the current fuel prices, an aircraft that burns more fuel per seat and have other downsides is nearly unacceptable. And don't forget: while the A380 now had its buck of issues, the B747-8 still has to become operational.

And Beoing B747 fans don't need to be pity: The B747-8F killed the A380F as originally proposed.