If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
The US and maybe the global aviation industry cannot survive with the current fuel prices. The kicker is that nobody really seems to care.
They will survive, however it may be in a different form from what we have today. What may eventually happen is fewer people will travel. They won't even go to the bus companies as all transport companies are having to change their way of doing business.
The US and maybe the global aviation industry cannot survive with the current fuel prices. The kicker is that nobody really seems to care.
The solution would be to come up with a way to control oil speculation or to change the way oil is traded/prices. As it is, traders have been able to push the price of oil up for no real reason. Oil is just as important as water to the well being of any country, and its price should not be set by people playing the trading game. Oil is not worth $145 a barrel, it's just being traded at that price. You know something is wrong when Iran and the US/Israel making idle threats at eachother somehow is a reason to push oil $10 higher. There is no supply shortage or production problems and there is no way demand shot up the way the price did. Just like the housing market. Houses that were supposed to be $300,000 for example were selling at prices close to $1,000,000, but eventually values fell to reasonable values. We can only hope that the same happens with oil soon, and that the traders that don't get out fast enough get what they deserve.
That sucks, I have a few friends at Air Whiskey, one of which I know will be looking for work as a result of the furloughs. I say it again, if I ever meet one of these oil speculators I will beat the hell out of them.
The solution would be to come up with a way to control oil speculation or to change the way oil is traded/prices. As it is, traders have been able to push the price of oil up for no real reason. Oil is just as important as water to the well being of any country, and its price should not be set by people playing the trading game. Oil is not worth $145 a barrel, it's just being traded at that price. You know something is wrong when Iran and the US/Israel making idle threats at eachother somehow is a reason to push oil $10 higher. There is no supply shortage or production problems and there is no way demand shot up the way the price did. Just like the housing market. Houses that were supposed to be $300,000 for example were selling at prices close to $1,000,000, but eventually values fell to reasonable values. We can only hope that the same happens with oil soon, and that the traders that don't get out fast enough get what they deserve.
Very well said. I was reading over the weekend that a standard oil shipment via supertanker in the past was bought and sold 3 or 4 times by the time it arrived at its final destination. Today its bought and sold over 40 times driving the price up. Until the retard sitting sitting in the White is out nothing is going to get done. Bush is an oil man and its clear he really could careless about the American consumer.
Very well said. I was reading over the weekend that a standard oil shipment via supertanker in the past was bought and sold 3 or 4 times by the time it arrived at its final destination. Today its bought and sold over 40 times driving the price up.
But, in and of itself, that has no impact on the price of that shipment of oil. It's just the same amount of oil, and it's used only once by one consumer. I could point out numerous other commodities in recent months and years where there has been an increase in "speculation" but where the price has remained stable. Ultimately, the price of anything goes up because there are more buyers than sellers assuming constant supply, and if there are more buyers, it means there is more demand. We make a huge mistake to crack down on speculation and forward contracts.
That sucks, I have a few friends at Air Whiskey, one of which I know will be looking for work as a result of the furloughs. I say it again, if I ever meet one of these oil speculators I will beat the hell out of them.
Seconding that. F*cking speculators, traders, "golden boys" and other middlepersons hunting for the quickest profit whichever the consequences and for whom long term visioning is beyond their understandings.
Seconding that. F*cking speculators, traders, "golden boys" and other middlepersons hunting for the quickest profit whichever the consequences and for whom long term visioning is beyond their understandings.
Can you explain to me the difference between what a "speculator" does and what an airline does when it buys oil futures contracts to protect itself from a rising oil price ?
Basically,
a speculator is a middle man who looks for the biggest profit by putting two parties together and
an airline usually contracts a credit by the oil companies such as Shell
Basically,
a speculator is a middle man who looks for the biggest profit by putting two parties together and
an airline usually contracts a credit by the oil companies such as Shell
Not really. The difference is that airlines do it for investment purposes, while the speculators do it for trading purposes. Different accounting rules apply, but the deals are basically transacted in the same manner.
First, you do realize that for everyone who buys a contract for oil at, say, $140 a barrel, there has to be another party who is willing to sell at the same price. So how does an increase in trading activity, in and of itself, push up the price ? Second, while airlines may well buy their futures contracts from oil companies, a lot of their purchases are from - wait for it - independent oil traders and small specialists, who are often the same people engaged in what is being called "speculation".
Speculators have been around in markets since there were markets. The more money they are willing to put into the market, the more transparent and liquid that market is, and the easier it is to trade and meet your requirements, whatever they may be. Speculation is essential to healthy financial markets. No-one would complain if the oil market collapsed this week to $50, but if it did, you can be sure that many of the same operators people love to lambast would be involved just as much. People complain about short sellers driving the price of stock markets down, but no-one complains when long buyers drive prices up.
There is confusion around between speculators and manipulators. Sure, there are sometimes interests who try to manipulate markets, but that generally involves close collusion, and I don't think there is the remotest evidence of that in the world oil product markets (unless you call OPEC a cartel, but then they do crude oil only, they have a different motivation and are anyway far from unified).
I just love it how people who deride others for not 'taking responsibility for their own actions' are quick to blame speculators, politicians, what-have-you for their own mistakes.
Buying a 10 mpg car is a mistake. Take responsibility.
Buying a 737-800 to fly a mission that a large turboprop can do equally well, was a mistake. Hedging the oil is only a temporary reprieve
Getting used to $99-anywhere weekends was a big mistake. Along with overpriced houses what-were-you-thinking ?
Not funding high speed rail, Amtrak and decent intercity transportation was a big mistake. See 10 mpg car above.
Take responsibility.
ASMEL-IA 1978 A&P-IA 1965 First Aloft 1954 DC-4
Dad: B-24 Ploesti Self: U205A1 private ops Nam
Not funding high speed rail, Amtrak and decent intercity transportation was a big mistake.
Well said. Canada is just as bad in that they keep talking about transit but they never build the services. Madrid is about the same size as Toronto and Madrid builds almost 20 km of new subway/rail lines per year. Toronto does nothing but fight with the provincial and federal governments and builds "0".
You can't even take rapid transit to YYZ from anywhere because the airport authority (GTAA) keeps trying to extort huge amounts of money from the transit system so the transit system said "have a nice day".
I live 141 km from work (don't yell at me!) and it was at one time possible to take one of 4 daily trains into Toronto and then the bus to the airport (2H10 versus my 1H20 drive). Now there are none as the railway claimed they couldn't upgrade the tracks for the passenger trains.
Canada has been talking about high speed rail between Windsor and Quebec City since Jesus was a boy. We are still waiting.
We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
Comment