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Is Discrimination Against Obesity Wrong?

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  • #31
    I'm 6 feet 230 pounds and the seats are perfectly comfortable for me. Don't know where this 5'6" thing comes from.

    By the way, I think the word "discrimination" that I used to title this thread is wrong. There's nothing discriminatory when different customers pay different fares for different accommodations. That's happened without any complaint for years. For example, when I flew to Seattle, I was offered a larger seat for another $99 and I took it. I just wanted to see if the extra room was worth the extra money. My conclusion was that it is. But I'm not sure I'd spend extra on every flight. However, at that price the FOOD was also included. So more room and "free" food does make it a good purchase for me. But I got an unusual bargain because they'd been unable to fill the seat. If I'd bought the ticket in a normal way, it would have been more expensive.

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    • #32
      You know, we all need to read a dictionary.

      There is nothing wrong with discrimination. Every time more than one person applies for a job, there is discrimination as one person is hired and the other is not.

      We hope the employer does what's right and discriminates against lesser qualified applicants and gives favoritism to the better qualified applicants.

      Suntan lotion people discriminate against black people and don't use them for advertising models. The makers of Afro-sheen discriminate against white peole and didn't hire them for advertising models.

      Football teams discriminate against puny people and old people, and horribly discriminate against women. They give favoritism to big, heavy, strong, fast folks....and there seems to be at least some racial diversity in who is a big, heavy, strong fast person- although the racial ratios on a football team does not equal racial ratios of the average population...Oh my, dare I mention such facts?

      IMPROPER discrimination IS bad. Different fares for your skin color...that's not really right. Different fares because you occupy three times the space of someone else? Well the airline revenue depends upon how much space a person takes up (and you could even split hairs that it affects the amount of lift that must be generated, and fuel burned to generate that lift)....anyway- your size impacts the flight significantly. Your skin color does not.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
        ....Don't know where this 5'6" thing comes from.......
        It comes from an attempt at tongue-in-cheek humour
        If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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        • #34
          Truth to be told, I don't care what the airline does so long as it keeps me from being crushed in my seat. That can be accomplished in more than one way. And if it is, I'm not gonna raise a stink about where the oversized persons sit or what they pay. That's between them and the airline. I will say if they put an OS next to me and cannot reseat me, I want my money fully refunded. Because I paid on the premise of full seat for me. And they are giving me something less.

          And I wouldn't complain if they upped the dimensions of seats to reflect the growth of the population. If they add 10 precent to the seat volume, let them add 10 percent to the ticket price. It is a sensible thing to do.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
            And I wouldn't complain if they upped the dimensions of seats to reflect the growth of the population. If they add 10 precent to the seat volume, let them add 10 percent to the ticket price. It is a sensible thing to do.
            Would that they could. There is a minimum realistic isle size - is you add 10% to the width of the seats on 737's, the isle would be 9 inches narrower - not only would that mean no trolleys, but the bigger people down a narrower isle would impede emplaning and deplaning and movement around the cabin. If you have a squiz here: http://www.seatguru.com/charts/shorthaul_economy.php 737's seem to be limited to 17.3 inches, A320's to 18 inches and Embraer 170-195's 18.25 inches. Its probably no coincidence that the 737 was first to market (and the fuselage size was identical to the 707?), A 320 next, jungle jets newest. As each generation of aircraft comes out they acknowledges the size increase and add a tad. It gives you an idea that the 737 replacement will probably be at least around a foot wider if they wished to retain 6 across seating.

            If you did want 10% wider seats on todays 737's you'd either have to ditch one seat out of each row (prices would then go up 20 odd percent) or they would have to introduce the innovative staggered seating that I saw a concept of a while back (allows the hip and shoulder points in a row to be staggered thus giving each passenger more room.) http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/04/delta-airlines/


            This seems to be an alternate take on the premium economy situation. I wonder how you keep a seat belt around you when you are lying a right angles to the seat? http://www.gizmag.com/air-new-zealand-skycouch/13983/

            Another idea: http://www.gizmag.com/airline-seating-innovation/13535/

            Locally, Virgin Blue (originally a one class LCC) is looking to add wider seats here... http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...iguration.html

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            • #36
              Yeh, there definitely are some problems of implementation. I can see a variety of options to consider. Wider jet bodies. Narrower beverage carts (probably way cheaper). Moving food and beverages on something hanging from the ceiling (would ameliorate the problem of flying beverage carts in stormy weather). Don't widen all seats. Maybe have a quarter of the rows with one less seat. That's just for starters. a real brainstorming session might come up with a bunch more. But either we have to stop growing bigger bodies or the airlines have to adapt to those bigger bodies. Auto makers have responded to the evolution of customers' bodies. Seems like anyone transporting humans has to bite the bullet and realize that humans don't come from a cookie cutter.

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              • #37
                I used to often fly the front range on a Beechcraft commuter aircraft. On hot days passengers and their baggage were weighed and boarded in order they checked in. When the total weight reached a ceertain level later passengers were denied boarding (and sometimes offered a free ticket).
                I never saw it happen but I suppose it would be possible for heavy weight person to be denied boarding but a lighter weight person take his place ("we have room for a passenger weighing less than 170 lb").

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
                  I used to often fly the front range on a Beechcraft commuter aircraft. On hot days passengers and their baggage were weighed and boarded in order they checked in. When the total weight reached a ceertain level later passengers were denied boarding (and sometimes offered a free ticket).
                  I never saw it happen but I suppose it would be possible for heavy weight person to be denied boarding but a lighter weight person take his place ("we have room for a passenger weighing less than 170 lb").
                  To add, IIRC one of our past alumni (I believe it to be either Joe {Screaming Emu} or perhaps Chasen) that spoke about dreading having to walk to the back of the cabin to explain to 'an overweight passneger' that the aircraft was improperly balanced. Come to think of it, I more strongly think that it was Chasen as he often worked (or planned to start flying) props.
                  Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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                  • #39
                    If you go to Sizzler and eat two steaks, you have to pay for two steaks. If you go to Blockbuster and order two movies, you have to pay for two movies. If you get on a plane and you take up two seats, you pay for two seats. It makes sense to me. I had to sit next to a fat person once flying from ONT-LAX and it was HORRIBLE! I had to clench my legs together for FIFTEEN MINUTES STRAIGHT!
                    Bujuraj Vataranjan-O'Malley

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                    • #40
                      I hate to sound mean, but no discriminating against obesity I don't feel is a bad thing. Working in the healthcare industry, I see what kind of lifestyles these folks lead and for the most part, their obesity is on them. I've paid good money to fly on this aircraft and I expect my seat to be my seat. I don't want some heavyweight crowding me, and frankly obese people (to the point we're talking about here where someone would actually need 2 seats) are disgusting. Again, why should passengers who forked over a ton of money for their ticket be subjected to the discomfort sitting next to a insanely obese person who's half in their seat and spilling over into theirs? They made that decision, so they can buy 2 tickets. Your personal space stops where mine starts. Don't mean to be rude but thats how i feel. I can be candid here since its an internet forum. I would never tell anyone I know that because I'm not into hurting people's feelings either. Those people are more uncomfortable with themselves than any of us could ever make them.

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                      • #41
                        Unlike trains, aircraft need to fly within well defined weight and balance limits.

                        "Fair" would be to charge passengers by the pound, same as they do freight.

                        Heavier people cause the use of more fuel, and can impede the safe evacuation of a plane in an emergency.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Bujuraj_Vataranjan View Post
                          If you go to Sizzler and eat two steaks, you have to pay for two steaks. If you go to Blockbuster and order two movies, you have to pay for two movies. If you get on a plane and you take up two seats, you pay for two seats. It makes sense to me. I had to sit next to a fat person once flying from ONT-LAX and it was HORRIBLE! I had to clench my legs together for FIFTEEN MINUTES STRAIGHT!
                          Someone should tell Kevin Smith that! (the funny thing is until I heard all the news stories about his b*tching at WN for being kicked off a standby flight due to only one seat being available , I never even heard of him!)

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                          • #43
                            Wow, that Kevin Smith is WIDE. I see no way he could fit in one seat. If he only bought a single ticket, he must have been counting on an empty seat next to him. If he did and it wasn't there, he cooked his own goose and has no reason to complain.

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