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  • New Bombardier CSeries order

    Hidden in this article about the A320 re-engining, according to Flight Global, Qatar Airways' boss says they will make a decision on whether or not to finalize the deal for the Bombardier CSeries CS300 by July at the 2010 Farnborough International Air Show.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ouncement.html

    Do you think Bombardier and Qatar will agree on terms? And what other airlines do you think are most-likely to order the CSeries?

  • #2
    Qatar has been showing interest in the C-Series for a while.

    I would think many US carriers would be interested. For example, in American/American Eagle's fleet, there is a notable gap between CRJ700 and 737-800, which was originally covered by the Fokker 100.

    I don't see a lot of demand from Asia. Any Japanese order will probably go to the MRJ (as already happened with ANA) and Chinese order will go to ARJ21 (as the lengthened version being developed). Other major Asian carriers are satisfactory with the size of 737/A319 as the smallest member of their fleets, with the turboprops (Dash 8/ATRs) fulfilling the role of serving airports/runways that cannot support jets (as seen in the cases in India, Pakistan, Philippines and Malaysia, etc.).

    The C-Series may find a role in LAN and Avianca as they spread their wings to secondary destinations in South America.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by CathayPacific View Post
      Qatar has been showing interest in the C-Series for a while.

      I would think many US carriers would be interested. For example, in American/American Eagle's fleet, there is a notable gap between CRJ700 and 737-800, which was originally covered by the Fokker 100.

      I don't see a lot of demand from Asia. Any Japanese order will probably go to the MRJ (as already happened with ANA) and Chinese order will go to ARJ21 (as the lengthened version being developed). Other major Asian carriers are satisfactory with the size of 737/A319 as the smallest member of their fleets, with the turboprops (Dash 8/ATRs) fulfilling the role of serving airports/runways that cannot support jets (as seen in the cases in India, Pakistan, Philippines and Malaysia, etc.).

      The C-Series may find a role in LAN and Avianca as they spread their wings to secondary destinations in South America.
      A good summarisation, I think the ARJ21 will sell to Phillipines and Indonesia in the future,
      turboprop market will also include the new version of 228, the Do-228NG, popular in
      India where itīs made.
      Perhaps Nepal could be interested in the C-series?
      "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by djarfur View Post
        Hidden in this article about the A320 re-engining, according to Flight Global, Qatar Airways' boss says they will make a decision on whether or not to finalize the deal for the Bombardier CSeries CS300 by July at the 2010 Farnborough International Air Show.

        http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ouncement.html

        Do you think Bombardier and Qatar will agree on terms? And what other airlines do you think are most-likely to order the CSeries?
        Depends what Airbus do with the GTF (geared turbo fan), the russian MS-21 (MC-21 in cyrllic alphabet)
        is about the same size as the A320-family and they got the GTF as engine.
        "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Alessandro View Post
          Depends what Airbus do with the GTF (geared turbo fan), the russian MS-21 (MC-21 in cyrllic alphabet)
          is about the same size as the A320-family and they got the GTF as engine.
          Now that - would be a thing to see. If it works well, it may well revolutionize the industry.

          To the topic at hand - while I see how and where LAN might go after the C-Series, I think that Embraer would perhaps not let that order go without a hell of a fight. Their ERJ-170/190 lines are maginificent, and with very little change (from the existing lines - unlike with Bombardier, which needs a brand new design), Embraer could produce a line with better/the same preformance and a sooner EIS. With the 787's debut - I was wondering what Embraer would/could do with a composite body. Would it be feesible/safe on, what would essentially be, and RJ?
          Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by AA 1818 View Post
            Now that - would be a thing to see. If it works well, it may well revolutionize the industry.

            To the topic at hand - while I see how and where LAN might go after the C-Series, I think that Embraer would perhaps not let that order go without a hell of a fight. Their ERJ-170/190 lines are maginificent, and with very little change (from the existing lines - unlike with Bombardier, which needs a brand new design), Embraer could produce a line with better/the same preformance and a sooner EIS. With the 787's debut - I was wondering what Embraer would/could do with a composite body. Would it be feesible/safe on, what would essentially be, and RJ?
            I read another article on WSJ.com yesterday regarding United Airlines looking at finalizing their narrow-body order in 2010 as well - with a mention of the CSeries.

            I'm not so sure about the E170/190's economics but I know they use the CF34. There is talk of a CF34NG to be developed that will reduce fuel-burn by 8% - is that correct or is it more than 8%? The PW1000G (GTF) has a more impressive fuel-burn reduction - up to 23% on the CS100ER on a 2500nm mission. That being said - the CSeries is bigger than the E170 and 190 with 100 to 150 seats versus the E-jets' 70-100(120?). They're not really true competitors. The MRJ, with the PW1000G, is the equivalent to the E-Jets I would say in the 70-100 seat category (Mitsubishi stated they will stretch the MRJ further to a 100-seater which was the reason for changing the wing-box from composite-materials to Aluminum-Lithium). Given that even a re-engining of the 73G family and the A320 family does go ahead with, say the LeapX or PW1000G - the fuel-burn would be reduced by 15% but I do believe, in my opinion, that overall COC per trip would only end up being marginally-improved say 5 to 10% versus the CSeries' 15 to 18%. But who knows I may be completely off with those numbers! I am not an expert by any means. I don't know details but I think if the CSeries does actually meet and/or exceed its targets then it will have unbeatable economics in this category until 2025 when A and B are slated to bring their NG NB's to the market. I also don't know what Airbus, Boeing and Embraer are planning for reducing maintenance costs but due to its high-usage of advanced composite and aluminum-lithium materials as-well as the PW1000G engine, the CSeries is promising a 25% savings in maintenance costs as well (12% comes from the PW1000G alone).

            As for a composite E-Jet - that could happen, yes, but it would require a lot of re-design so Embraer would be better off just making a clean-sheet-aircraft.

            It sounds to me like Qatar has made up its mind and they're just waiting for Bombardier to agree to their terms. I could see maybe AA, UA and DL (in the future), AirTran and then possibly SAS ordering the CSeries as well.

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