Is this a normal (good) crosswind landing??..

[UALdave]

[photoid=7390779]

It looks scary! I have a physical therapist who owns and flies a Cirrus SR-22, who told me once that, during a crosswind landing, it's normal for one gear to come down before the other.

I certainly don't want to judge the pilots, because I'm not one. Which is what bugs me about people making comments, as I'm sure they will with this photo, about what an idiot they think the pilot was.

[Gabriel]

It's hard (read impossible) to tell from one snapshot if it was a good landing or not.

The bank looks like a bit more than you usual big-bird crosswind landing (not so much for small planes like the Cirrus SR-22 or a Cessna single, or the Tomahawk of my avatar). The "problem" with big bird with long wings and wing-mounted engines is the risk of a wingtip or engine strike.

But strong winds near the ground are typically associated with gusts and turbulence. A sudden gust immediately before touchdown can upset a bit the plane before the pilot has time to correct (or the airplane has time to respond to the pilot's corrective input).

That said, leaving the "shades of gray" aside, it looks like a typical crosswind technique (assuming that there was a crosswind coming form the right, that is).

- The wing upwind is low (a bank to the right).
- Rudder away from the wind (left rudder) is applied to de-crab and align the fuselage with the runway heading (so as not to touch sideways).

[snydersnapshots]

It's hard (read impossible) to tell from one snapshot if it was a good landing or not.

If you're talking "good" as in smooth, it's impossible to tell. If you're talking "good" as in technique, I'd have to say this looks like a good landing. I don't believe the bank is excessive. The tires are about 3-4 feet tall and if you look at the aft tire of the downwind truck, it's about 2/3 of a tire-height off the ground, so roughly 2-3 feet. I suppose I could do some research into the width of the MLG on the 777 and we could figure a rough angle of bank, but that would require too much digging into long-lost math books for me. Gabriel... you seem to be pretty good at math!

You were spot-on with your description of a proper crosswind landing technique. My technique in the 757/767 is to hold the crab down to the flare--about 10 feet off the ground or so, and simultaneously use the rudder to line uo with the runway and drop the upwind wing to maintain the centerline and kill any drift. Ideally, the upwind gear touches down about the time I get the bank rolled in. Some of my best landings have been in horrendous crosswinds, and some of my worst in dead-calm conditions (that's why I always make sure there's a bug spot on the window or at least a 100 lb fuel imbalance--in case I need an "excuse" for a lousy landing. )

Here is a link to some video footage of Boeing crosswind landing tests on the 777. You'll notice they just land in the crab, which I believe is required for certification. I've landed a 767-400 with a very little sideways motion and it sounds like you're tearing the main gear out from under it. I can just imagine what it sounds like in these landings!

[3WE]

...To split hairs, I'm thinking that wing dropping needs to be somewhat minimized on planes such as the MD-80/DC-9 (and maybe also 737, 707, and DC-8 that used to have the smaller diameter, low by-pass engines, and shorter gear legs.)

[snydersnapshots]

...To split hairs, I'm thinking that wing dropping needs to be somewhat minimized on planes such as the MD-80/DC-9 (and maybe also 737, 707, and DC-8 that used to have the smaller diameter, low by-pass engines, and shorter gear legs.)

You're exactly right. I'm not sure about the MD80/DC9, but definitely the DC-8 and 707 (KC135) with the CFM engines are critical when it comes to touching down in a bank. The 737 will take a surprising amount of bank before you drag a pod (10 degrees is the recommended maximum). The old 727 used to be pretty critical too--they had a tendency to drag the outboard flap if you over-banked during the landing.

The "fly-it-down-and-kick-it-out" technique works well because, with practice, you can get down low enough that you don't have to bank much before you touch down. The slip technique that some light plane pilots use, where the pilot lines up the airplane with the runway using rudder and then adds opposite aileron to maintain the centerline doesn't work well in airliners because: a) it's very uncomfortable for the passengers and b) you may end up using more bank than you would with the other technique and that's when you end up getting paint on the nice clean runway.

[snydersnapshots]

Here's an excerpt from a 737-300 manual from an airline I used to work for which is no longer in business regarding crosswind landing technique:

...maintain wings level throughout the approach, flare, touchdown, and landing roll. On final approach, establish a crab with wings level to maintain the desired course. Just prior to touchdown, apply downwind rudder to minimize the crab and align the aircraft with the runway centerline.

As rudder is applied to remove the crab, maintain wings level with simultaneous application of the aileron control into the wind. Make the touchdown with cross controls and both gear touching down simultaneously. In stronger winds, it may be preferable to have the upwind wing slightly lower
allowing the upwind gear to contact the runway first. Throughout the
touchdown phase and initial landing roll, use upwind aileron to keep the wings level.

Pilots should not exceed 10° angle of bank prior to touchdown because at certain higher pitch and bank combinations engine nacelles,
outboard flaps, and wing tips will contact the runway

[Foxtrot]

^Nothing too out of ordinary about this crosswind landing, it seems the crosswinds were quite gusty. There are plenty of examples both on JP.net and A.net. This one reminds me of the 75s doing similar stuff at LAS on 25L I saw in photos, last year or the year before during strong crosswinds. If memory serves some of those bank angles were steeper than this one.

[porter guy]

Dash 8's landing like that all the time. I like to call it "doing a dance while landing." It could be a last second adjustment to keep the plane on the center line