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  • Etihad may take more planes from Air India

    Having purched five others from the airline they are now looking at leasing the remaining three 77Ls, AI are offering the aircraft for sale or lease to any airline interested.

    http://www.livemint.com/Companies/Ly...Air-India.html


  • #2
    Originally posted by LUNN View Post
    Having purched five others from the airline they are now looking at leasing the remaining three 77Ls, AI are offering the aircraft for sale or lease to any airline interested.
    ...well at least they are going to good homes. Perhaps EY can acquire PIA's 77Ls as well, thus freeing up the airline to purchase newer aircraft. Or, are the 77Ls a better fit at PIA than they were at AI?
    Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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    • #3
      They are doing well for PK on Toronto nonstops, not sure about Europe.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by LUNN View Post
        They are doing well for PK on Toronto nonstops, not sure about Europe.
        Is PIA still banned from operating to the U.S. non-stop?
        Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

        Comment


        • #5
          Is AI is the only airline that cannot seem to make the 77L work? Hmm interesting eh? Not surprising then that it calls the plane a "fuel guzzler" - when others are flying it happily around the world and happy to take on more.

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          • #6
            PK do fly nonstop only JFK-Lahore, they have to have a security stop when doing Pak-JFK, last month EU banned PK flights from carrying freight and it affected cargo ops to/from the US as well but the issue has since been resolved.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Foxtrot View Post
              Is AI is the only airline that cannot seem to make the 77L work? Hmm interesting eh? Not surprising then that it calls the plane a "fuel guzzler" - when others are flying it happily around the world and happy to take on more.
              I think that, for AI, and they ways that they used them (on routes that are now used by 773s instead), they were fuel guzzlers. It is a niche aircraft, and for AI, perhaps it was not the right niche. I though, am not going to say that other carriers are willing to take on more, because the 772LR was only ordered in small numbers, by a handful of carriers. (13 carriers, 59 ordered in total).

              Turkminestan Airlines - 3.
              Republic of Iraq (perhaps for IA?) - 1.
              Qatar Airways - 9.
              PIA - 2.
              Ethiopian Airlines - 9.
              Emirates - 10.
              Delta - 10.
              Ceiba Intercontinental - 1.
              Business Jet/VIP aircraft - 2.
              AirIndia (to Ethiad) - 8.
              Air Canada - 6.
              Air Austral - 1.

              In reality - if they were priced well (as AI is under pressure to restructure and handle profitability issues), EY could pick these up at a great price, and they are a great aircraft. Keep in mind though, it is the least sold 777 model out there, and the largest carriers only operates 10 of them.

              There is one other aspect that I have to ask about and perhaps you guys can help answer them. For carriers that require Hot and High operations - would the 772LR fill that niche (more powerful engines, greater wing spans, greater fuel capacities)? If so, the aircraft is a great fit for EY, ET, EK, QR, IA (or the goverment as a VIP) - as well as providing for the range necessary.
              Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

              Comment


              • #8
                Republic of Iraq is Iraqi Airways and its used commercially to China and Malaysia, it was ordered by Air Austral as listed above and never taken by themm.

                EVA were also lanch customer but switched to 777F and later on to 77W.

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                • #9
                  I wouldn't recommend anyone buying Second Hand Aircraft from Air India, they can't even keep their relatively new 787's in the Sky and one has apparently been parked for several months.

                  They will surely be the first Airline to retire their 787 fleet as the process has already started!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tsv View Post
                    I wouldn't recommend anyone buying Second Hand Aircraft from Air India, they can't even keep their relatively new 787's in the Sky and one has apparently been parked for several months.

                    They will surely be the first Airline to retire their 787 fleet as the process has already started!
                    Well, being the CEO of Nothing Airways Incorporated does have its perks. Case in point, while you would buy full price, or wait the decades for other operators to be done with their aircraft, actually profitable airlines are making sound business choices and purchasing aircraft at a great price from a carrier with a good safety rating and sound mechanical principles. To the point of storing a 787, it is not an uncommon practice to store relatively new aircraft to be serviced, to be upgraded, or to even find buyers that would be interested in them thus taking advantage of a loop-hole in that many carriers would like to get their hands on a 787 sans the wait.

                    They are not retiring the fleet. Your statements contradict each other in directly highlighting their business practice yet not contemplating or perhaps grasping the concept. Get rid of the panes that do not work for your fleet (and, better yet, do it while those planes still hold equity) and stock your fleet with the newer, more fuel efficient, better suited aircraft.

                    Once more, I am not bashing the 777-200LR, but rather stating that they were not as good a fit for AI as the 777-300ER and 787-8 combination is for the company.
                    Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Obviously forgot to add a smiley face to my post! Of course the Buyers will do due diligence and make a Business decision.

                      But there is a current of truth in my dark humour - Air India is not going to lead the World in Aircraft Maintenance standards any time soon. And I'm sure most real CEO's would agree that a near new $200 M Airplane is worth more flying than sitting around as a Spare Parts horse.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tsv View Post
                        And I'm sure most real CEO's would agree that a near new $200 M Airplane is worth more flying than sitting around as a Spare Parts horse.
                        At present, AirIndia currently has no 787s stored. There are 3 aircraft in the entire fleet that are stored - 2 737-200s (previously operated as Cargo aircraft) and 1 777-200LR which is likely being prepared for Ethiad as either a sale, or a lease (i.e. that $200 Million spare parts horse is not even their own to fly...).


                        Originally posted by tsv View Post
                        But there is a current of truth in my dark humour - Air India is not going to lead the World in Aircraft Maintenance standards any time soon.
                        When the rest of the world's airlines were waiting to get their hands on their 787s, AirIndia was on the first operators. Would Boeing entrust the aircraft to an unsafe carrier? They currently operate a mixed fleet of Airbus and Boeing products and the last major incident reported on AirIndia was over 2010 (AirIndia Express). So, considering their operations and their incidents one could venture that they are a safe airline. But, why stop there? Who operates the VIP services for the government of India (including transportation of the Prime Minister, President and/or members of Parliament)? Who has recently joined Star Alliance? Has the airline been banned from flying to Europe due to unsound safety and maintenance practices? No. Has the airline been banned from flying to the U.S.? Nop. I again, fail to see the validity of your argument in the wake of the facts.
                        Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I didnt know Air Austral have one 777L in service, thought the one taken by Iraqi was the only order.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LUNN View Post
                            Having purched five others from the airline they are now looking at leasing the remaining three 77Ls, AI are offering the aircraft for sale or lease to any airline interested.

                            http://www.livemint.com/Companies/Ly...Air-India.html
                            Don't shoot the messenger, but that's not a Boeing 777 in that picture in the article. Ignorant news media.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AA 1818 View Post
                              At present, AirIndia currently has no 787s stored. There are 3 aircraft in the entire fleet that are stored - 2 737-200s (previously operated as Cargo aircraft) and 1 777-200LR which is likely being prepared for Ethiad as either a sale, or a lease (i.e. that $200 Million spare parts horse is not even their own to fly...).




                              When the rest of the world's airlines were waiting to get their hands on their 787s, AirIndia was on the first operators. Would Boeing entrust the aircraft to an unsafe carrier? They currently operate a mixed fleet of Airbus and Boeing products and the last major incident reported on AirIndia was over 2010 (AirIndia Express). So, considering their operations and their incidents one could venture that they are a safe airline. But, why stop there? Who operates the VIP services for the government of India (including transportation of the Prime Minister, President and/or members of Parliament)? Who has recently joined Star Alliance? Has the airline been banned from flying to Europe due to unsound safety and maintenance practices? No. Has the airline been banned from flying to the U.S.? Nop. I again, fail to see the validity of your argument in the wake of the facts.
                              I never said Air India was unsafe but there is more to good Maintenance Programs than stopping the planes falling out of the Sky. Dispatch reliability for example.

                              Re the 787 some have said is in storage you may want to read the article below. Air India say it is going back into service in November. Interesting to see if that happens.
                              You may want to read this;

                              http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/201...for-parts.html

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