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  • Bombardier wins in tariff dispute with Boeing

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42825916

    Ok, Boeing, lawyering and protectionism isn't going to save you. Bombardier (Airbus) has a brand new beautiful 21st-century narrowbody on the market. Lower fuel burn, quieter cabin, bigger windows, FBW and lower maintenance. Maybe it's time to stop tacking features onto a 50 year-old airframe and start sketching something new. HINT: The point of competition is to inspire better products.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42825916

    Ok, Boeing, lawyering and protectionism isn't going to save you. Bombardier (Airbus) has a brand new beautiful 21st-century narrowbody on the market. Lower fuel burn, quieter cabin, bigger windows, FBW and lower maintenance. Maybe it's time to stop tacking features onto a 50 year-old airframe and start sketching something new. HINT: The point of competition is to inspire better products.
    there you go again talking sensibly.......

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    • #3
      It is good news for a competitive free world but it doesn't seem to be a result of the Trump-May relationship or they'd be crowing about it in Davos.
      sigpic
      --
      David W. Wilson

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Evan View Post
        http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42825916

        Ok, Boeing, lawyering and protectionism isn't going to save you. Bombardier (Airbus) has a brand new beautiful 21st-century narrowbody on the market. Lower fuel burn, quieter cabin, bigger windows, FBW and lower maintenance. Maybe it's time to stop tacking features onto a 50 year-old airframe and start sketching something new. HINT: The point of competition is to inspire better products.
        Boeing had to decide where to allocate the money and, especially, their human resources. They put it in the 787 and new 777. The smaller the airplanes, not only the smaller the prices but the smaller margin %. Boeing prefers to win the the big planes market and relegate the small airplanes. I think we'll see the next 757 (which will be a widebody) before seeing the next 737.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          Boeing had to decide where to allocate the money and, especially, their human resources. They put it in the 787 and new 777. The smaller the airplanes, not only the smaller the prices but the smaller margin %. Boeing prefers to win the the big planes market and relegate the small airplanes. I think we'll see the next 757 (which will be a widebody) before seeing the next 737.
          The 'new 777' or the 20 year-old airframe with some features tacked on? Boeing misread the market in the early part of the century, killed the Y1 project and bet on the long-haul direct-flight model. Now we have an industry based on short/medium haul hubs and low cost carriers. I think that lower-margin, higher volume sales of single-aisle aircraft are driving the industry these days. Conspicuously missing in their product line is a scaled down 787.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Evan View Post
            The 'new 777' or the 20 year-old airframe with some features tacked on?
            If you call a brand new composite wing from scratch "some features"... Plus new state-of-the-art engines, bigger windows, wider cabin, higher ceiling, lower cabin altitude, increase cabin air humidity, longer fuselage, 10 abreast as standard and 20% lower fuel burn per seat, and a 787 cockpit.

            More than an incremental upgrade of the 777, the X will be the bigger version of the 787 leveraging on the 777.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
              If you call a brand new composite wing from scratch "some features"... Plus new state-of-the-art engines, bigger windows, wider cabin, higher ceiling, lower cabin altitude, increase cabin air humidity, longer fuselage, 10 abreast as standard and 20% lower fuel burn per seat, and a 787 cockpit.

              More than an incremental upgrade of the 777, the X will be the bigger version of the 787 leveraging on the 777.
              Fair. I think the 777 is as extendable as the A320/330. It is the foundation for a 21st century airplane. For all the reasons that the B737 isn't.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                Boeing prefers to win the the big planes market and relegate the small airplanes. I think we'll see the next 757 (which will be a widebody) before seeing the next 737.
                And Boeing doesn't care for the rest....that's why they started this huge DoC dispute about a market segment that technically they are not even involved in, talks about more involvement with Embraer (rumors about possible acquisition negotiations). All they did was drive the C-Series project right into the hands of Airbus, and it just might fit in very nicely in their portfolio. All those nice things you say about the 777-X are also true for the C-Series. Really, really stupid and over-confident bullying, which backfired. Now, the question is why did they get so worried? I can't think of many reputable independent aviation experts or analysts who found Boeing's claim to be valid or justified.

                As for that 757 wide-body replacement (dubbed the MoM), that's a very hot discussion. Some would say it's the next big thing, others say it will always be a niche market.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                  More than an incremental upgrade of the 777, the X will be the bigger version of the 787 leveraging on the 777.
                  That said, my opinion is that every new airframe since the turn of the century should feature developments like electric cabin pressurization (no more bleed air poisoning), EHA, EHBA or EMA actuators, composite fuselages capable of lower cabin altitude, electric ice protection and arc-fault circuit breakers. The 777X doesn't take us there (the CS100/300 doesn't leverage most of these things either). This is why I say the 737 replacement should be essentially a downsized 787. If we had more competitive pressure in the industry, we might be flying in 21-century narrow-bodies by now.

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                  • #10
                    The 777X doesn't have a composite fuselage but will have a lower cabin altitude (6000ft) and bigger 787 windows.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      The 777X doesn't have a composite fuselage but will have a lower cabin altitude (6000ft) and bigger 787 windows.
                      Unfortunately, it won't compete very well in the narrowbody market.

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