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Reports of a Ukrainian 737 Having Crashed in Tehran

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  • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

    I guess that a pilot of your credentials must know what a causal CHAIN of events is.

    (I use CAPS for emphasis. easier than bold, underline or color)
    Thought you would know that all caps online = yelling. But hey, I doubt Trump knows either.

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    • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

      Thought you would know that all caps online = yelling.
      I know, but I am a rebel. Not an original one though at using all caps for emphasis.I might sound like LH but you and me are older than all caps meaning yelling.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

        I would agree if it was part of a long term global geopolitical strategy of the US and the NATO, which is not.

        I don't agree either with about anything the current POTUS says or does, and in principle I don;t agree with this attack not because the SOB didn't deserve it but because... well, what I've just said above.

        BUT FROM THERE TO SAYING THAT THE HANDS OF THE PRESIDENT IS STAINED WITH THE BLOOD OF THE CIVILIANS KILLED IN THIS CRASH AND IN THE FUNERALS OF SOLEIMANI??? I would not go as far no matter how much I dislike Trump.
        I know it's not an obvious causal chain, but Trump stirred the pot and this is what happenes when you still that pot. You might recall that Iran once stirred this pot, and the crew of the Vincennes were made very paranoid by that event. That set the stage whereby an ascending A300 was assumed to be a descending F-14. Human Factors.

        If it helps, I never completely blamed the US for that shootdown, because Iran was responsible for those human factors. If you don't follow, then forget it. I don't want to get into a political feud here.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Evan View Post

          I know it's not an obvious causal chain, but Trump stirred the pot and this is what happenes when you still that pot. You might recall that Iran once stirred this pot, and the crew of the Vincennes were made very paranoid by that event. That set the stage whereby an ascending A300 was assumed to be a descending F-14. Human Factors.

          If it helps, I never completely blamed the US for that shootdown, because Iran was responsible for those human factors. If you don't follow, then forget it. I don't want to get into a political feud here.
          You are blaming Trump for blood on his hands. That is purely political. If you are really just worried about civilian air safety, the lesson is really simple: Don't fly F****** civilian aircraft in war zones. Trump, the Americans and they FAA did their job on that front. It was the other countries and airlines that did not follow this very simple concept -- AGAIN.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Evan View Post

            I know it's not an obvious causal chain, but Trump stirred the pot and this is what happenes when you still that pot. You might recall that Iran once stirred this pot, and the crew of the Vincennes were made very paranoid by that event. That set the stage whereby an ascending A300 was assumed to be a descending F-14. Human Factors.

            If it helps, I never completely blamed the US for that shootdown, because Iran was responsible for those human factors. If you don't follow, then forget it. I don't want to get into a political feud here.
            Exactly, just the human factors.No link in the causal chain belonged to Iran before the assassination of Soleimani.

            Because Iran did not stir the pot since 1988. Because surely the USA would have still killed Soleimani if Iran had not shot down a US drone, set international tankers ablaze, attacked the Saudi refinery, attacked the US base killing 1 American, and attacked and put under siege the US embassy in Baghdad (and all that counting only the last few months). Oh, sorry, most of those were using proxies. US should have contracted, trained, given weapons, facilitated the logistic, planned and ordered the attack to be executed by some mercenaries and nothing of this would have happened. Because we know, you go against the hit man, not against the criminal who contracted him.

            Biased.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Schwartz View Post

              You are blaming Trump for blood on his hands. That is purely political. If you are really just worried about civilian air safety, the lesson is really simple: Don't fly F****** civilian aircraft in war zones. Trump, the Americans and they FAA did their job on that front. It was the other countries and airlines that did not follow this very simple concept -- AGAIN.
              For how long? Do you really think the Iranians are going to stand down now after dunderhead threatened to attack their military and cultural sites? How long do you suspend aviation in an entire region? If you open the airports tomorrow, is it safe? Not really. The nation remains on hair-trigger alert. It could happen again tomorrow. The Iranians have vowed more revenge. You can't put that ketchup back in the bottle now.

              Comment


              • This is chilling, but it shows the entire sequence, including both missile launches 23 secnds apart. The plane continued to fly, despite reports that at least one proximity warhead detonated under the cockpit. It is soon engulfed in flame but still flying at the end of the video. I can't imagine the terror for those onboard. It's just sickening.

                https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/w...gtype=Homepage

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                • New video shows both missile strikes. No wall to access.

                  https://www.businessinsider.com/vide...issiles-2020-1

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Evan View Post

                    For how long? Do you really think the Iranians are going to stand down now after dunderhead threatened to attack their military and cultural sites? How long do you suspend aviation in an entire region? If you open the airports tomorrow, is it safe? Not really. The nation remains on hair-trigger alert. It could happen again tomorrow. The Iranians have vowed more revenge. You can't put that ketchup back in the bottle now.
                    That is exactly what they are going to do. This incident happened hours after they launched a missile attack -- in which they made sure no one was going to get killed. That was the period of suspense. Once it was confirmed the US wasn't going to retaliate -- because no one got killed as expected -- the Iranians had made a show of force and then the whole thing was going to de-escalate just like it is right now. They needed to wait until the back channels confirmed the de-escalation was done. Vows of revenge are for show. They will know if they plan revenge or not. If they do, keep the airspace closed.

                    There will be no further escalation. The harmless missiles were it. It is done for now. It was always going to be done unless the Americans didn't accept their token revenge.

                    The net is if your troops are worried about an imminent attack and are understandably trigger happy, close your airspace. Simple. Iran is at fault, and the Ukrainians should have known better.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Schwartz View Post

                      That is exactly what they are going to do. This incident happened hours after they launched a missile attack -- in which they made sure no one was going to get killed. That was the period of suspense. Once it was confirmed the US wasn't going to retaliate -- because no one got killed as expected -- the Iranians had made a show of force and then the whole thing was going to de-escalate just like it is right now. They needed to wait until the back channels confirmed the de-escalation was done. Vows of revenge are for show. They will know if they plan revenge or not. If they do, keep the airspace closed.

                      There will be no further escalation. The harmless missiles were it. It is done for now. It was always going to be done unless the Americans didn't accept their token revenge.

                      The net is if your troops are worried about an imminent attack and are trigger happy, close your airspace. Simple.
                      I get the impression you have been caught in the bubble of a certain television network. Have you not seen the images from the airbase they targeted? Have you not read the interviews with the US service members who were there? It's a miracle nobody was killed! The Iranians certainly weren't too concerned about killing them.

                      As for the near future, I wish you were right, but everything we know about Iran and the region, and the grave injury of the US assassination leads me to believe the carnage will continue, most likely through proxi, asymmetrical assaults but perhaps also through more Iranian menace in the Persian Gulf. In any case, as long as a capricious and cornered President is sitting in the White House seeking to create distractions, Iran will keep it a nervous finger on the antiaircraft fireworks.

                      Comment


                      • and the wonderful authorities in iran have arrested the guy they claim posted the video.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          It's a miracle nobody was killed! The Iranians certainly weren't too concerned about killing them
                          But.... they let the Iraqi government know a few hours in advance.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                            and the wonderful authorities in iran have arrested the guy they claim posted the video.
                            You have to love Iran. They deny everything. Even after finally admitting to the missile strike, they deny there was a second missile. Then they blame the flight for flying too close to a military base.

                            Simply admit you are incompetent.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Evan View Post

                              I get the impression you have been caught in the bubble of a certain television network. Have you not seen the images from the airbase they targeted? Have you not read the interviews with the US service members who were there? It's a miracle nobody was killed! The Iranians certainly weren't too concerned about killing them.

                              As for the near future, I wish you were right, but everything we know about Iran and the region, and the grave injury of the US assassination leads me to believe the carnage will continue, most likely through proxi, asymmetrical assaults but perhaps also through more Iranian menace in the Persian Gulf. In any case, as long as a capricious and cornered President is sitting in the White House seeking to create distractions, Iran will keep it a nervous finger on the antiaircraft fireworks.
                              What was that about not wanting to "engage in a political feud"?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Schwartz View Post

                                That is exactly what they are going to do. This incident happened hours after they launched a missile attack -- in which they made sure no one was going to get killed. That was the period of suspense. Once it was confirmed the US wasn't going to retaliate -- because no one got killed as expected -- the Iranians had made a show of force and then the whole thing was going to de-escalate just like it is right now. They needed to wait until the back channels confirmed the de-escalation was done. Vows of revenge are for show. They will know if they plan revenge or not. If they do, keep the airspace closed.

                                There will be no further escalation. The harmless missiles were it. It is done for now. It was always going to be done unless the Americans didn't accept their token revenge.

                                The net is if your troops are worried about an imminent attack and are understandably trigger happy, close your airspace. Simple. Iran is at fault, and the Ukrainians should have known better.
                                Frankly, I got the sense the ayatollahs sold the general out. They've been having some tensions with the Revolutionary Guard as a whole and with him specifically for a while. Maybe he was getting a bit too popular (at least in some circles) for their liking. What I find particularly puzzling is why he went to Baghdad in the first place. Certainly he had to know he was being hunted and not just by the US either.

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