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Kobe Bryant Killed in Helicopter Crash

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  • #16
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

    Ya think?
    CFIT as opposed to uncontrolled descent into terrain. Just prior to the crash, according to Flightradar24, they climbed at a rate of nearly 2000fpm, a rate I would not think possible for a fully-loaded S-76B, in any case a very determined climb. Then, quite suddenly, the vertical rate goes negative, reaching almost -5000fpm before the signal was lost. Either there was some catastrophic failure involved, IMC spatial disorientation or an extreme maneuver. The latter might be the case if they suddenly went from IFR to IMC, as described in this article:

    Originally posted by NYMag
    As the helicopter approached Calabasas, it was less than 500 feet above the ground. Perhaps wanting to put a safety margin between himself and the increasingly hilly terrain, the pilot began a brisk climb, ascending nearly 1,000 feet in 36 seconds. This put it very close to the bottom of the cloud layer reported at that time at nearby Van Nuys airport.

    We may never know for sure if the helicopter had indeed entered the clouds. But if it did, then it had crossed a kind of invisible line. It was now engaged in what air-crash investigators call “continued VFR flight into instrument meteorological conditions.” Basically, a pilot dependent on seeing the ground to stay oriented can no longer see the ground. Amid a sudden whiteout, disorientation can come surprisingly quickly. “When you get in the soup, your senses don’t work,” Cline, the aviation professor, said. “For me, I always feel like I’m falling to the right. Other people might feel like they’re falling to the left, or climbing.”

    A trained pilot can stay rightside up by paying attention to the instruments on his panel. But at low altitude over Calabasas, Bryant’s pilot also had another problem. He knew that the ground ahead was rising, and he couldn’t see it. To avoid hitting it, he could keep climbing, and hope that he’d gain altitude faster than the ground underneath him. Or he could slow to a stop and descend vertically until he popped out of the bottom of the cloud.

    Instead, it seems likely that the pilot apparently executed a common maneuver: Figuring that the bottom of the cloud must be close at hand, he decided to dive and pull a fast 180 to go back out the way he’d come in.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
      Not calling for NEW regulations, etc, but I was surprised to learn [ATL] that lots of COMMERCIAL helicopter pilots are not instrument rated...I know it's a much different world AND a different need, but seems to me there's a practical side to going into clouds, tuning a navigation thingie and going where you need to go with all the good protections IFR provides. (Ok, not exactly in that order, but...)
      If only it were as simple as that. This is very crowded airspace and requesting to proceed under IFR would have resulted in significant delays. However, the local visibility was reportedly so bad that the the LAPD had grounded their helos. Considering the conditions, continuing in VFR may have been a bit cowboy.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Evan View Post
        If only it were as simple as that.
        Cmon Mr. Black and White, If you cant see ahead, don’t go flying 160 MPH. If you can’t see, you are illegal. Call ATC- file a flight plan...declare an emergency...
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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        • #19
          From what I saw last night on the tube, looks like they flew right into the side of the hill. For the children's sake, I hope I am right. Very sad.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
            If you cant see ahead, don’t go flying 160 MPH.
            Especially if you're in an aircraft that's capable of flying at 0 MPH. So unlike most aircraft, stopping and taking a moment to figure out WTH is going on is a possible option.
            Be alert! America needs more lerts.

            Eric Law

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            • #21
              Originally posted by elaw View Post
              Especially if you're in an aircraft that's capable of flying at 0 MPH. So unlike most aircraft, stopping and taking a moment to figure out WTH is going on is a possible option.
              Yeah, well... Not like if hoovering in IMC out of ground effect at max weight is the easiest thing to do, especially if were are not IFR rated (which I don't know if the pilot was or not).

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                Yeah, well... Not like if hoovering in IMC out of ground effect at max weight is the easiest thing to do, especially if were are not IFR rated (which I don't know if the pilot was or not).
                I am pretty sure that the S 76 has an auto pilot!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                  Yeah, well... Not like if hoovering in IMC out of ground effect at max weight is the easiest thing to do, especially if were are not IFR rated (which I don't know if the pilot was or not).
                  Nor is it the safest thing to do even in VFR. Are they supposed to burn fuel in a low altitude hover for 45 mins waiting for IFR instructions?

                  The thing to do is to find a suitable place to land and call an Uber. You know, like the common people do.

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                  • #24
                    I've seen this in small airplanes and helicopters. For some reason the idea of slowing down doesn't register. A lot of my small airplane experience was in the Pac North West and we did a lot of scud running. Half flaps, slow to 60 and be prepared to turn around. Some helicopter friends where ferrying south down I5 in northern Calif. Kept slowing as the fog got worse. Finally landed in a farmers backyard. Were invited to brunch with them. As the fog began to lift they took the farmer and wife for a ride then continued the ferry flight.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Evan View Post
                      Are they supposed to burn fuel in a low altitude hover for 45 mins waiting for IFR instructions?
                      No, but NOT doing that does NOT call for 160 MPH straight ahead with no apparent regard for terrain.

                      There's that E word that you aren't supposed to use for a 3-engine landing...(or fly illegally USING IFR types of navigation- if you are going to be a cowboy, don’t be an idiot...break the rules, not the airplane.)
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                      • #26
                        There are many examples where ego overcomes judgement vfr into imc. Where the undertakings given in fine weather and inside the competence envelope have been overtaken by deteriorating conditions. It's at that moment when training and the wise words of an instructor should come to the front of a pilot's consciousness.
                        The courage to confront the real or imagined expectations of the passengers and to not be afraid to tell them that the disappointment of not reaching their destination might not be the worst thing.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by pegasus View Post
                          There are many examples where ego overcomes judgement vfr into imc.
                          There are also examples of when a VIP passenger commands a continuation under dangerous circumstances.

                          No CVR on those things I suppose. We might never know.

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                          • #28
                            Pegasus (post #26) and Evan (post #27) make good points - having a celebrity on board may have influenced the pilots actions.

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                            • #29
                              The pilot, Ara Zobayan, was instrument rated and an instrument instructor pilot.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                                No, but NOT doing that does NOT call for 160 MPH straight ahead with no apparent regard for terrain.
                                There was a banking turn just prior to the crash, probably with great regard for terrain. But not enough regard for safety.

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