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A380 landing at Heathrow

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  • A380 landing at Heathrow

    Saw it on the news this morning. Another wild crosswind landing. Don't know how to find it and post it.

  • #2
    Delete just saw you already found it

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    • #3
      Looks like he wound up in the grass a little bit in that video.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kent olsen View Post
        Saw it on the news this morning. Another wild crosswind landing. Don't know how to find it and post it.
        Is this the one you mean:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw8E2I8LEdc
        CarolW
        Broom navigator

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        • #5
          Yeah that's the one. Probably a 16 tire change before they could make the next departure. I remember years ago at the old Hong Kong airport we where there for a test flight. My copilot was a camera nut and so he wanted to go up to the checker board and film some arrivals. I remember and Air China 747 landing in what looks like a 45 deg angle. My first thought was I'm going to buy some stock in Firestone.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kent olsen View Post
            Probably a 16 tire change before they could make the next departure.
            I don't think so. The touchdown was quite smooth and you don't see rubber smoke coming from the tires except at touchdown like in any airplane.

            Landing in a crab seems to be quite the SOP for crosswind landings for these ultra large transport category planes. Even Boeing test pilots land the 777 like that in the crosswind landing test flights. Like this (credit to BoingBobby who posted it in the other thread).

            https://youtu.be/_z2LtHrn9Jw

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
              Looks like he wound up in the grass a little bit in that video.
              Yeah but he walked away from it.

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              • #8
                With the wind blowing hard enough to push that airplane around you probably wouldn't see much smoke from the touchdown. At the last 15 secs he hits another gust which pushed he into a 30 deg crab which he held to touchdown. A little right rudder and drop the left wing 5 deg and he would have had a better touchdown.

                Years ago I was at Marana, Az going out for test flight in one of our B-747's. Coming in was the last TWA 747, to be mothballed never to return. The runways 150 ft wide and we had a 30 kt 90 deg crosswind. I'm sure this was the Chief Pilot or at least a very senior Captain. Text book perfect landing. He pushed the crab out on the flare, while dropping the upwind wing, touchdown on the left wing gear, spoilers popped up as he landed with no crab and gently lowered the nose tire. Wish I had a movie camera, textbook perfect.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by kent olsen View Post
                  With the wind blowing hard enough to push that airplane around you probably wouldn't see much smoke from the touchdown. At the last 15 secs he hits another gust which pushed he into a 30 deg crab which he held to touchdown. A little right rudder and drop the left wing 5 deg and he would have had a better touchdown.

                  Years ago I was at Marana, Az going out for test flight in one of our B-747's. Coming in was the last TWA 747, to be mothballed never to return. The runways 150 ft wide and we had a 30 kt 90 deg crosswind. I'm sure this was the Chief Pilot or at least a very senior Captain. Text book perfect landing. He pushed the crab out on the flare, while dropping the upwind wing, touchdown on the left wing gear, spoilers popped up as he landed with no crab and gently lowered the nose tire. Wish I had a movie camera, textbook perfect.
                  Continue with your genius advice.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                    Continue with your genius advice.

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	A380 5 deg bank.JPG Views:	0 Size:	57.9 KB ID:	1081488
                    He was talking about a real airplane Gabe, not a bus. And why do you have to be rude? You listening to Trump too much?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                      Continue with your genius advice.

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                      Does the absence of flare factor in there? Mains are well behind the #2 engine.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

                        He was talking about a real airplane Gabe, not a bus. And why do you have to be rude? You listening to Trump too much?
                        He's just worried about copyright infringement. He's one of the only two people who are allowed to give advice around these parts.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                          He was talking about a real airplane Gabe, not a bus. And why do you have to be rude? You listening to Trump too much?
                          Isn't he talking about the A380 video here?

                          Originally posted by kent olsen
                          Saw it on the news this morning. Another wild crosswind landing. Don't know how to find it and post it.
                          Originally posted by CarloW
                          Originally posted by kent olsen
                          Probably a 16 tire change before they could make the next departure.
                          Originally posted by Gabriel
                          I don't think so. The touchdown was quite smooth and you don't see rubber smoke coming from the tires except at touchdown like in any airplane.
                          Originally posted by kent olsen View Post
                          With the wind blowing hard enough to push that airplane around you probably wouldn't see much smoke from the touchdown. At the last 15 secs he hits another gust which pushed he into a 30 deg crab which he held to touchdown. A little right rudder and drop the left wing 5 deg and he would have had a better touchdown.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Evan View Post

                            Does the absence of flare factor in there? Mains are well behind the #2 engine.
                            The nose-up attitude will give you some extra margin. Still, I don''t think that that's an extra margin that you you want to count on. The situation can get "dynamic" here in all degrees of liberty. The 5 degrees of bank can become 7 due to a gust. The pitch attitude can become 1 instead of 3 degrees nose up a second before touchdown. The nose may go down after touchdown before the right wing does. The landing can be harder than expected with more strut compression.

                            As you can imagine I have zero experience, instruction or first-hand knowledge about landing a big transport category airplane.
                            My knowledge comes from theory and from what other pilots with the experience say.
                            And a few pilots in these fora have said that you want to keep the wings basically level at touchdown in these planes (and I believe that BB was one of them). Long ago (in the times of ADC) I have even been (rightfully now I think) bashed by pilots here for criticizing videos where they were not touching down with the upwind wheel first.

                            Then we see this video of the A380 that touches down with the wings basically level.
                            And we have the video in the other thread where we have not one but 2 747s that touch down with the wing basically level.
                            And the crosswind test-flight landing of the 777 posted by BB, where they touch down basically with the wings level.
                            And look at this video. Isn't he touching down with the wings basically leveled? It is not super easy to tell, but it looks to me that the pilot kicks away from the wind to partially de-crab just a couple of seconds before touchdown and adds aileron into the wind not to bank the plane into the wind and touch down on that side first as we do in the Cessna 172 and Piper Tomahawk, but to prevent the plane to bank in the same direction of the kick what the plane would normally tend to do due to the yaw-roll coupling (caused by the diheadral and the wing sweep). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKVSyoS4zb8

                            I also read in the 14 CFR part 25 that the landing gear must withstand the maximum side force caused by landing in whatever crab (plus 50% margin).

                            I also note how close the engines are to the ground when you bank as little as 5 degrees.

                            I put everything together and say "what the people with the credentials say make sense, I was wrong about landing your 747 by banking into the wing like with the little Cessnas and Pipers."

                            So what is it? Is it ok to intentionally bank into the wind to touch down a big airliner as part of the crosswind technique, or it is not as other pilots convinced me was the case?

                            Does it also depend on the type? (some airplanes have much more engine clearance than others).

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              Does it also depends on the type?
                              Careful. 3WE will flame you with bicycle suggestions.

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