CRM [Tiny font] and customer service.[/tiny]

[3WE]

YouTube below. Is it just me or is the real pilot (PNF) being a dick?

An amateur dude has paid $425 to ride in a simulator.

He has nearly no experience flying into airports with 3+ parallel runways (5 in this case). The skill to tell if you are lined up IN PARTICULAR WITH A PAIRED RUNWAY from 10 miles out is not something you develop unless you are Bobby/ATL/ETAL.

"I'm not sure of which runway we're aiming for"....the one straight ahead. (Hell, a little crosswind correction and you are POINTING to the other side of the field no less!).

I'm still not sure, the second from the right? THE ONE STRAIGHT AHEAD. (A pretty good blow off)

Strikes me as crummy SA and crummy CRM, and crummy customer service since he paid some pretty good money to have some fun in a retired simulator.

The real pilot could have listened and responded to the PF with which runway counting from the left...the far out on the right, but then the very next one in...the left of the pair close in to the left side of the field. Or he could EVEN have said, yeah, it's tough to see, try to follow the localizer to help you out...but no let's repeat "the one straight ahead" even though the PF has clearly indicated twice he's not quite sure WHICH one it is.

Oh, and one more thing...at this very airport, there have been incidents of professional airline pilots landing on the wrong runway and even taxiways...another reason to turn up the CRM and try to WORK WITH fellow crew member.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV_Q1SLDcZ0

Additional reference: https://forums.jetphotos.com/forum/a...irlines-museum

[Evan]

YouTube below. Is it just me or is the real pilot (PNF) being a dick?

An amateur dude has paid $425 to ride in a simulator.

He has nearly no experience flying into airports with 3+ parallel runways (5 in this case). The skill to tell if you are lined up IN PARTICULAR WITH A PAIRED RUNWAY from 10 miles out is not something you develop unless you are Bobby/ATL/ETAL.

"I'm not sure of which runway we're aiming for"....the one straight ahead. (Hell, a little crosswind correction and you are POINTING to the other side of the field no less!).

I'm still not sure, the second from the right? THE ONE STRAIGHT AHEAD. (A pretty good blow off)

Strikes me as crummy SA and crummy CRM, and crummy customer service since he paid some pretty good money to have some fun in a retired simulator.

He could have listened and responded to the PF with which runway counting from the left...the far out on the right, but then the very next one in...the left of the pair close in to the left side of the field. Or he could EVEN have said, yeah, it's tough to see, try to follow the localizer to help you out...but no let's repeat "the one straight ahead" even though the PF has clearly indicated twice he's not quite sure WHICH one it is.

Oh, and one more thing...at this very airport, there have been incidents of professional airline pilots landing on the wrong runway and even taxiways...another reason to turn up the CRM and try to WORK WITH fellow crew member.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV_Q1SLDcZ0

Additional reference: https://forums.jetphotos.com/forum/aviation-hobby-forums/flight-simulator-discussion/1074801-737-200-flight-sim-at-delta-airlines-museum

I know I'll get flamed for this but we should require that runways are designated by numbers and letters and that pilots have an aerodrome chart on board that depicts these.

[Gabriel]

I know I'll get flamed for this but we should require that runways are designated by numbers and letters and that pilots have an aerodrome chart on board that depicts these.

Did you forget the blue font or something?

[3WE]

I know I'll get flamed for this but we should require that runways are designated by numbers and letters and that pilots have an aerodrome chart on board that depicts these.

Flaming:

1. Wrong context, this is a plea for help from someone flying a simulator for fun this is my main flame...BUT what if it were a REAL plea for help from a PF to a PNF...do we ask him why he doesn't have a chart, or do you help him?

2. I do not know if it is in THE checklist, but I have a beer that pilots confirm that they have the right runway (in a couple different ways). I have witnessed runway confirmations from seat 1B of a Jetstream...

3. They almost always have the localizer tuned confirming that for them (and I think they confirm THAT with each other).

4. They almost always brief an approach chart which has runway depictions and numerical designations.

5. They do have brains and if you are a Delta Pilot you probably have the runways WELL memorized that I don't psychologically know how to handle them looking at a chart to confirm what they already know from their 800th approach to ATL (and 800th departure from ATL- where they also get to deal with runway designations and taxi diagrams).

PS: Evan- I know those numbers are in one huge ass 64,000,000 point font, but from 10 miles and 3 degrees (and on the video from a 1970's simulator)...they aren't particularly legible. (PPS: probably not legible from the quadruple Mark IV 400-700 nm bioelectromagnetic radar units on a REAL approach either.)

[Evan]

Did you forget the blue font or something?

Why, no.

[Evan]

Flaming:

1. Wrong context, this is a plea for help from someone flying a simulator for fun this is my main flame...BUT what if it were a REAL plea for help from a PF to a PNF...do we ask him why he doesn't have a chart, or do you help him?

2. I do not know if it is in THE checklist, but I have a beer that pilots confirm that they have the right runway (in a couple different ways). I have witnessed runway confirmations from seat 1B of a Jetstream...

3. They almost always have the localizer tuned confirming that for them (and I think they confirm THAT with each other).

4. They almost always brief an approach chart which has runway depictions and numerical designations.

5. They do have brains and if you are a Delta Pilot you probably have the runways WELL memorized that I don't psychologically know how to handle them looking at a chart to confirm what they already know from their 800th approach to ATL (and 800th departure from ATL- where they also get to deal with runway designations and taxi diagrams).

PS Evan- I know those numbers are in one huge ass 64,000,000 point font, but from 10 miles and 3 degrees (and on the video from a 1970's simulator)...they aren't particularly legible. (PPS probably not legible from the quadruple Mark IV 400-700 nm bioelectromagnetic radar units either.)

So I would help him by saying, yeah, we want 12R, not "the one straight ahead". Then (assuming I'm not so familiar with the airport) I might bring the aerodrome chart up on the old LCD to help him out.

[3WE]

So I would help him by saying, yeah, we want 12R, not "the one straight ahead". Then (assuming I'm not so familiar with the airport) I might bring the aerodrome chart up on the old LCD to help him out.

Your credibility sucks...("Yes, you have worked in customer service roles before"...so you say).

The dude paid $425 to FLY A SIMULATOR...

HE DID NOT PAY $425 TO READ AN AIRPORT DIAGRAM TO FIGURE OUT WHICH RUNWAY HE'S ASSIGNED TO.

IF I WANT TO READ AN AIRPORT DIAGRAM, I WILL GO HERE: https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2003/00026AD.PDF

That cost me nothing.

Please just answer my phugoid question and help me with the 14 parallel strips of concrete that are displayed on this 1970's-era projector screen to know which one I need to aim for.

YES, I AM YELLING WITH THE ALL CAPS!

I do understand that you would rather read an airport diagram and an FCOM than fly an airplane or ride a bicycle. Tell you what, I'll fire up MSFS and for $425 I'll print the airport diagram AND the approach plate and hand it to you so you can read, while I take over flying MSFS. Hell for $425, I'll read it to you and point while you fly- whatever you prefer- the customer is always right!

[vaztr]

OK so, did the dude pay $425 to 'piss about' and 'fly' the simulator or did he want/expect a 'real world' experience (woteva that means).

$425 seems like a lot of cash for 'pissing about', but he might have got exactly what he expected

[3WE]

We are talking about $425 to get a little advice on runways. If REAL REALISM is the goal then the PNF would take over EVERYTHING and tell the dude to please leave the cockpit...Again, for $425 I’ll be happy to tell folks they aren’t type rated nor particularly current...

[TeeVee]

and this is related to aviation safety, how?

[Evan]

whatever you prefer- the customer is always right!

If that is the case, then the correct runway is whichever one he lands on.

[3WE]

and this is related to aviation safety, how?

Three capital letters that I hid in an obscure location.

[3WE]

If that is the case, then the correct runway is whichever one he lands on.

Indeed. I’ll hand you the diagram, and then you can pick whatever runway or taxiway you like and I’ll land my MSFS on it. I’ll send you a Pay Pal link and we’ll schedule something. Shall we confirm the correct runway as part of a checklist? That will be $425.