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360 On final for "spacing"

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  • 360 On final for "spacing"

    I have heard and seen ATC requests for s-turns on final...Here's an interesting twist of a full 360:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCWbjsynDZ0
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    Cool. They must be using a weird version of the stabilized approach criteria.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #3
      It appeared very stable.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
        Cool. They must be using a weird version of the stabilized approach criteria.
        Well, this is clearly Richard Branson in the left seat picking up some extra work to pay the bills. He always plays ACDC in the cockpit and he's a busy man, no time for go-arounds.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Evan View Post

          Well, this is clearly Richard Branson in the left seat picking up some extra work to pay the bills. He always plays ACDC in the cockpit and he's a busy man, no time for go-arounds.
          I actually wondered if the music was added to the video or if they were actually listening to it in the cockpit, which would make this even cooler.

          I have to say, this looks as something that goes against many things... possibly even illegal. On the other hand it looks so col and well executed, not to mention about the efficiency of loosing only 90 seconds. They didn't even retract the gear or reduce the flaps. And they nailed it, how they completed the turn perfectly in place (horizontally and vertically) to be again in short final and ready to land. It was a beauty piece of stick-and-rudder-ship, and super cool to watch.

          Now, may times I said "I did that in the Tomahawk" and get bashed for comparing a paper-plane-like Tomahawk with a Titanic airplane with a handful of throttles.
          In this case however I never did that in the Tomahawk. I did a couple of 360s in final for spacing but not lower than 500ft (which is much higher for a Tomahawk than for a transport category jet),.
          And I did have my share of expecting the runway to be clear until the last second and having to abort in extremely short final and very low altitude, but in those cases I went around and joined downwind again. I would be maybe not scared but certainly feel uncomfortable doing a 360 in short final at 100 ft. In the Tomahawk. Let alone in a 727.

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
            I have to say, this looks as something that goes against many things...
            The senior pilot is obviously very talented and practiced in manual flight (by the looks of that autopilot he better be). Bravo. The problem is that his F/O might not be, and Capt. Bravo may be mentoring that pilot into pulling rodeo moves like this, and when that less talented and experienced pilot decides to have a go at it, he gets it just a bit wrong. Altitude is margin for error. There's basically no margin for error (or failure) here. It's just boxes so whatever, but if any pilot ever pulled that flying pax, you would want to strangle him.

            Great airshow stuff though.

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            • #7
              Seems like a "steep" (albeit legal) bank. Please Mr. Pilot...do a skillful pull up to maintain altitude and don't stick a wing in the water, but don't pull up too much...you know, you are all slowed up for landing...and those draggy-ass flaps out there and slow spooling jet engines. I enjoyed WATCHING it but it gave me a funny feeling in the stomach.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                Seems like a "steep" (albeit legal) bank. Please Mr. Pilot...do a skillful pull up to maintain altitude and don't stick a wing in the water, but don't pull up too much...you know, you are all slowed up for landing...and those draggy-ass flaps out there and slow spooling jet engines. I enjoyed WATCHING it but it gave me a funny feeling in the stomach.
                If you watch the instruments, he is adding power and pulling what appears to be around 45deg of bank while flying visual with the runway. I guess that's what the old 'eyebrow' windows were for.

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                • #9
                  Is that the Master Caution light that is illuminated all the time?

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    Is that the Master Caution light that is illuminated all the time?
                    I was wondering about that too.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      Is that the Master Caution light that is illuminated all the time?
                      Maybe that's a reason to not do a missed approach and take a 40 mile tour because the preceding guy is still on the runway. I know it pays a little more to go the long route...
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                      • #12
                        The pilot is reportedly Niel Steyl, a South African pilot who was held for 17 months in a maximum security prison in Zimbabwe after being accused of having stopped to pick up weapons to overthrow the government of Equatorial Guinea. The decision to do such a low altitude manuever might be due to the dangers of flying over land around Aden Adde. There is supposedly still a lot of trigger-happy ordnance out there and the standard go-round involves an immediate120deg turn off the runway heading at the end of the field to avoid flying over land. Getting back out over the water seems pretty important here. It doesn't justify doing it at 100ft but I get the feeling this pilot lives in a somewhat different standard of safety culture. More of a Hans Solo safety culture.

                        https://fearoflanding.com/crazy/360-at-100-feet/

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          The pilot is reportedly Niel Steyl, a South African pilot who was held for 17 months in a maximum security prison in Zimbabwe after being accused of having stopped to pick up weapons to overthrow the government of Equatorial Guinea. The decision to do such a low altitude manuever might be due to the dangers of flying over land around Aden Adde. There is supposedly still a lot of trigger-happy ordnance out there and the standard go-round involves an immediate120deg turn off the runway heading at the end of the field to avoid flying over land. Getting back out over the water seems pretty important here. It doesn't justify doing it at 100ft but I get the feeling this pilot lives in a somewhat different standard of safety culture. More of a Hans Solo safety culture.

                          https://fearoflanding.com/crazy/360-at-100-feet/
                          He could have still climbed back while turning to UVMAT for a new approach or, if he wanted to keep it reasonably short and safe, while turning right (at a reasonable bank angle not exceeding 25 degrees given the config and slow speed), he cold have climbed back to pattern altitude and joined a right downwind and flown a visual circuit pastern. The extra altitude would give you extra safety margin both against flight path deviations and against fire arms.

                          It would have still taken longer than 90 seconds and it would have not made for a super-cool YouTube video, though.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                            He could have still climbed back while turning to UVMAT for a new approach or, if he wanted to keep it reasonably short and safe, while turning right (at a reasonable bank angle not exceeding 25 degrees given the config and slow speed), he cold have climbed back to pattern altitude and joined a right downwind and flown a visual circuit pastern. The extra altitude would give you extra safety margin both against flight path deviations and against fire arms.

                            It would have still taken longer than 90 seconds and it would have not made for a super-cool YouTube video, though.
                            Sure, he could have, but I get the impression Mr. Steyl prefers the highway to the danger zone. What really impresses me is how the F/O remains cool throughout, like it's the most natural thing in the world, instead of howling like Chewbacca. You get the sense that this is pretty common flying on the Millenium Steylcon.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              Is that the Master Caution light that is illuminated all the time?
                              It's lit up to indicate that it is an old airplane with very little automation that never should be flown.
                              Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                              Eric Law

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