Another stall spin crash burn die accident (almost)

[Gabriel]

Good job.

Yes:

- The airspeed become unreliable. What does the pilot flying (who was the first officer) do? Call unreliable airspeed and apply the unreliable airspeed memory items (4 degrees of pitch and 80% N1)
- Once stabilized there, they pull the QRH to find the fine-tuned values of pitch and thrust for the current weight and altitude.
- But meanwhile they receive a stickshaker stall warning. What do they do? Reduce the angle of attack a bit but enough to stop the stickshaker.
- Once they recover from the stall indication, they stabilize the flight with the QRH values.
- And then complete the unreliable airspeed procedure to troubleshoot and recover reliable airspeed.

All that while sharing information, discussing the situation, and agreeing in the course of action.

[Evan]

- But meanwhile they receive a stickshaker stall warning. What do they do? Reduce the angle of attack a bit but enough to stop the stickshaker.

They reduced pitch by about 4°. At cruise, I would call that a bit of a push.

Apparently about 1° would do the trick here.

[Gabriel]

They reduced pitch by about 4°. At cruise, I would call that a bit of a push.

Apparently about 1° would do the trick here.

Oh, no, sacre bleu! What were they thinking!!! They forgot to minimize altitude loss and almost hit the fence!!!

[Evan]

Oh, no, sacre bleu! What were they thinking!!! They forgot to minimize altitude loss and almost hit the fence!!!

Blue font. Procedure Gabriel.

[3WE]

Oh, no, sacre bleu! What were they thinking!!! They forgot to minimize altitude loss and almost hit the fence!!!

Indeed. They should be fired and sent back to the regionals or puppy mill instruction.

Edit: I believe the response above is wrong. The better response:

Indeed. They should have pulled up relentlessly.

Apologies for the mistake.

[ATLcrew]

Holy Catfish!

[3WE]

Holy Catfish!

Hopefully your are a much better pilot, having read this important advice. Or at least better for the mild entertainment.

[kent olsen]

Ok during a career in aviation or just a private pilot for many years you will run into situations not necessarily in the book. This is where experience and common sense will get you through.

747-100, 2 pilots and 1 flight engineer. Crossing into Canada on the way to Anchorage at night. Altitude FL310 with higher and lower overcast. Nothing out the window except black. Crew sits back to relax. Then the FE says to the Captain, "hey what's the matter with you ADI, it shows a left bank and increasing?" All three look, then they look at the FO's ADI and it is showing the same thing. "WHAT?" They then look at the standby ADI which shows the same thing. Just then the auto-pilot trips off and the airplane rolls inverted and the nose drops.

Well this isn't anything you train for, or is it? First you pull the power to idle. Then, and this is part of your training, you must roll the wings level before you can pull the nose up. Well this is what they did and they recovered somewhere around FL200. Nothing in any of your manuals to address this situation.

As it turned out Boeing had this happen 2-3 times before but during the daylight where you could see it coming out the window. Turns out the hydraulic actuator for the ailerons had a spot where the actuator got stuck with a small deflection. Boeing never passed this info out until our incident. Probably because the aircraft exceeded Mach 1 (Mach 1.2) in the recovery and tore off lots of panels. They recovered to Fargo ND and landed safely.

[Evan]

Ok during a career in aviation or just a private pilot for many years you will run into situations not necessarily in the book. This is where experience and common sense will get you through.

747-100, 2 pilots and 1 flight engineer. Crossing into Canada on the way to Anchorage at night. Altitude FL310 with higher and lower overcast. Nothing out the window except black. Crew sits back to relax. Then the FE says to the Captain, "hey what's the matter with you ADI, it shows a left bank and increasing?" All three look, then they look at the FO's ADI and it is showing the same thing. "WHAT?" They then look at the standby ADI which shows the same thing. Just then the auto-pilot trips off and the airplane rolls inverted and the nose drops.

Well this isn't anything you train for, or is it? First you pull the power to idle. Then, and this is part of your training, you must roll the wings level before you can pull the nose up. Well this is what they did and they recovered somewhere around FL200. Nothing in any of your manuals to address this situation.

As it turned out Boeing had this happen 2-3 times before but during the daylight where you could see it coming out the window. Turns out the hydraulic actuator for the ailerons had a spot where the actuator got stuck with a small deflection. Boeing never passed this info out until our incident. Probably because the aircraft exceeded Mach 1 (Mach 1.2) in the recovery and tore off lots of panels. They recovered to Fargo ND and landed safely.

Jesus H!

[ATLcrew]

Well this isn't anything you train for, or is it? First you pull the power to idle. Then, and this is part of your training, you must roll the wings level before you can pull the nose up. Well this is what they did and they recovered somewhere around FL200. Nothing in any of your manuals to address this situation.

Actually, we DO train for nose-low unusual attitude situation.

[Evan]

Actually, we DO train for nose-low unusual attitude situation.

Inverted?

[Gabriel]

Inverted?

It doesn't matter. The procedure is retard thrust, roll to the nearest horizon (i.e. to the vertical roll index) and pull up in either case (inverted or not).

[3WE]

It doesn't matter. The procedure is...

It does matter. Different aircraft types will have differing procedures...

[ATLcrew]

Inverted?

However the instructor sets it up, including inverted, yes.

[Gabriel]

747-100, 2 pilots and 1 flight engineer. Crossing into Canada on the way to Anchorage at night. Altitude FL310 with higher and lower overcast. Nothing out the window except black. Crew sits back to relax. Then the FE says to the Captain, "hey what's the matter with you ADI, it shows a left bank and increasing?" All three look, then they look at the FO's ADI and it is showing the same thing. "WHAT?" They then look at the standby ADI which shows the same thing. Just then the auto-pilot trips off and the airplane rolls inverted and the nose drops.

Do you have more data (like data or year, airline, etc) to look up for more information in the ASN or NTSB database? Maybe even the NTSB report? I would like to learn about the causes and recommendations that came from this accident.