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There have been reports that the PIC was advised by ATC multiple times during the initial approach that they were too high with the PIC responding that he was 'satisified' anf that he could handle the situation. Like the AirBlue CFIT crash, I'm afraid this one begins with hubris.
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Home base: Stupid improvisational cowboy idiot monkey pilots violate procedure.Originally posted by Evan View Post
No consideration that there might have been a problem.
Please, tell us of hubris and bicycle riding...Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.Comment
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Well, if there was a problem, the pilot never indicated that to ATC before (and even after) the go-around. I am all for aviate-navigate-communicate. Communicate is third in the list but is still IN the list.
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One thing that ATC might get bashed for is not asking the pilot to check gear down and locked. I've heard it is mandatory to ask/remind pilots of that in Pakistani ATC procedures, after another very notorious gear-up landing that took place I believe in the 80's.
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We need a big chunk of the CVR.Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
Until I hear otherwise, I am going to ass-ume that multiple shocking deviations from "normal" are not SIMPLY stupid improvisational cowboy idiot monkey pilots GROSSLY disregarding procedure.
It's possible that it's gross disregard, but I'm going to wait for some firm evidence.
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.Comment
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I have no problem with that. In the meantime, I am going to speculate and try to form hypothesis with the info we are getting as it becomes available.
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February 4, 1986 PIA Flight 300 Karachi - IslamabadOriginally posted by Gabriel View Postmoving quickly in airComment
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AvHerald:
On May 26th 2020 it became known, the data module of the cockpit voice recorder has not been found so far. Authorities are hopeful to find the CVR's data module during removal of the wreckage from the crash site.
On May 26th 2020 a spokesman of the airline reported only the cover of the CVR has been recovered so far. Residents of Model Colony are being urged to hand over any aircraft components found in their houses.
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One of the user comments in AvHerald says:
I have no idea if that is true or not. But if it is, it could explain a couple of things:The A320 was was fast and high all the way down final. Touchdown speed was about 210 KTS.
- A low pitch at touchdown with the engines being scraped but not the tail.
- 1500~2000 ft of intermittent scrape marks of both engines, perhaps the pilots initial intention after touchdown (and realizing the scraping) was not to go around.
- Perhaps the intermittent scrape marks are a sign of the pilot trying to keep the plane down while the plane was trying to lift up (the engines are ahead of the CG so each time you touch down on them they would pitch up, something similar to the porpoising that happens when planes touch down too fast on the nose gear and the pilot tries to keep the plane on the ground by pushing down).
- With the plane flying/skipping fast under a huge ground effect, it sounds like a lot of lift on the wings yet and hence low WOE (weight-on-engines) which in turn means low friction. And did I already mention INTERMITENT? Maybe after the initial intention of keeping the plane on the ground and seeing that the plane was not wanting to stay on the ground and barely slowing, and with the runway end approaching fast, they eventually realized that they were not going to stop and decided to abort the landing and go around.
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According to the report, he did communicate. He said he was "satisfied" with his altitude and the approach. Doesn't sound much like there's a problem in that answer...Originally posted by Gabriel View PostComment
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I have no idea. I think that at that speed you can have some slats/flaps.Originally posted by Evan View Post
Maybe they didn't have time to slow down to normal flaps speed.
Maybe they did slow down to flaps speed , extended the flaps and then gained speed when pitching down to descend quickly and oversped the flaps.
Maybe the didn't touch down at 210 kts.
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Maybe there was a BIG control problem...hydraulics...something of that sort...Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.Comment
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Yes, nothing but maybes at this point.Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
If that speed is accurate, that's considerably fast touchdown speed even for clean configuration, which, I believe, should be Vref+50, which, at MLW, I will wager, would be in the neighborhood of 180kts.
The protections automatically retract flaps 1 (1F) at 210kts (limit speed is 215kts). 210kt is 10kts above limit speed for flaps 2 and 25kts over flaps 3.Comment
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Riddle me this Gabriel, you are at 15,000 feet and too high...we don’t know $hit about transport flying...but maybe (where’d I hear that word?) putting out some flaps and wheels and other garbage might help with descending...
Maybe there were (big) problems with that stuff?Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.Comment
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