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  • Atlas Air again!

    https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/...139673.article

  • #2
    And while the VP of flight operations, Jeff Carlson continues to hire unqualified pilots, and reject recommend previously qualified international heavy jet pilots, Atlas prangs another one. Captain had previous problems AGAIN. I am informed that because of the virus, the Chinese will not let Atlas mechanics into the country to work on the aircraft.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      And while the VP of flight operations, Jeff Carlson continues to hire unqualified pilots, and reject recommend previously qualified international heavy jet pilots, Atlas prangs another one. Captain had previous problems AGAIN. I am informed that because of the virus, the Chinese will not let Atlas mechanics into the country to work on the aircraft.
      If you would consider coming out of retirement for a quick $$$, Atlas needs someone fearless to ferry a 744 out of China on a single engine.

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      • #4
        I don't think I've ever heard of a THREE-engine strike before.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
          I don't think I've ever heard of a THREE-engine strike before.
          He must have really planted it on!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
            He must have really planted it on!
            Do you mean a real hard landing? If so, wouldn't such a landing destroy the landing gear if it permits engines on both sides to contact the runway? I think that with the tires totally deflated and the struts totally compressed to their stops the engines still don't touch the runway.

            What I was thinking was rocking the wings both sides even after touchdown (or after bouncing). I remember a video of I think it was an A340 bouncing and rocking several times (it was more a "roll bouncing" than a vertical bouncing) although in that case I think there was no engine strike. Will try to find the video.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

              Do you mean a real hard landing? If so, wouldn't such a landing destroy the landing gear if it permits engines on both sides to contact the runway? I think that with the tires totally deflated and the struts totally compressed to their stops the engines still don't touch the runway.

              What I was thinking was rocking the wings both sides even after touchdown (or after bouncing). I remember a video of I think it was an A340 bouncing and rocking several times (it was more a "roll bouncing" than a vertical bouncing) although in that case I think there was no engine strike. Will try to find the video.
              Wasn't there so I don't know what happened. I'll leave it to your experience, arrogance and expert opinion to explain it to the group.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

                Wasn't there so I don't know what happened. I'll leave it to your experience and expert opinion to explain it to the group.
                I wasn't there either. Just like you, I was surprised by a triple engine strike. Just like as you, I was wondering how that could be possible. You proposed a "really planted" landing, I remembered a video on YouTube that could have resulted in engine strikes on both sides. What is the problem?

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                  I wasn't there either. Just like you, I was surprised by a triple engine strike. Just like as you, I was wondering how that could be possible. You proposed a "really planted" landing, I remembered a video on YouTube that could have resulted on engine strikes on both sides. What is the problem?
                  The problem is if someone says black, you say white. Or maybe a shade of grey. I almost would rather read LH's absurd posts than your diatribes. At least his are entertaining.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                    The problem is if someone says black, you say white. Or maybe a shade of grey. I almost would rather read LH's absurd posts than your diatribes. At least his are entertaining.
                    Ok, next time I disagree(*) with you I will keep my mouth shut or lie and say that I agree, just to make you happy.

                    (*) which is not even what happened here. I am not familiar with the word "planted" in this context so I asked you if you meant a hard landing, and asked a question and explained why I was asking it indicating that "I believed" one thing, not that "I knew" one thing. You didn't answer any of the 2 questions.If the thing that I believe happens to be correct, and if "planted" means a hard landing, then "planted" doesn't explain the situation or the news would not have been the engine strikes but the plane sliding on the runway.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                      Ok, next time I disagree(*) with you I will keep my mouth shut or lie and say that I agree, just to make you happy.

                      (*) which is not even what happened here. I am not familiar with the word "planted" in this context so I asked you if you meant a hard landing, and asked a question and explained why I was asking it indicating that "I believed" one thing, not that "I knew" one thing. You didn't answer any of the 2 questions.If the thing that I believe happens to be correct, and if "planted" means a hard landing, then "planted" doesn't explain the situation or the news would not have been the engine strikes but the plane sliding on the runway.
                      Yes, "planted" means hard used in this context. Definitely was rocking back and forth which is why he caught number 4 as well. How he managed to get number 2 is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is that he compressed the struts completely and went left wing down at the same time.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

                        Yes, "planted" means hard used in this context. Definitely was rocking back and forth which is why he caught number 4 as well. How he managed to get number 2 is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is that he compressed the struts completely and went left wing down at the same time.
                        Makes sense. And I am not just saying it to agree with you.

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          BB, I got it all wrong.

                          I can blame language barrier. I can blame you not being clear enough. But at least a good chunk of it was my own tunnel vision.

                          I read about this incident in AvHerald before you posted it here. Immediately I thought "How can you possible strike engines on both sides of the airplane at the same time?" I never stopped to think the other question: "How can you possibly strike an inner engine". When ATL said "I don't think I've ever heard of a THREE-engine strike before" and you replied "He must have really planted it on!", the phrase "THREE engine" still resonated in my head as "engines on both sides of the plane". I suspected that "really planted" meant "really hard" landing and I thought "that's not a good explanation for scraping engines on both sides of the plane unless you destroy the landing gear" (which I didn't stop a second to consider that that would be incompatible with scraping #1, #2 and #4 but not #3, so what I said really makes no sense).

                          Again, I could say that you should have said for example "He must have really planted it to hit #1 and #2!", but the fact is that if I thought it was not clear I should have asked (as I did for the meaning of planted) instead of automatically concluding (without even thinking it) that you had the same question in mind that I had.

                          Terrible CRM on my part.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Are we sure they had all the gear out? There was this body gear only landing in 2016 due to maintenance forgetting to insert rigging pins in the mains which resulted in a misrigged landing gear lever. Theoretically, it could happen again. I imagine landing without the mains in a good crosswind might get you rocking onto the engines.

                            http://aerossurance.com/safety-manag...tenance-error/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Evan View Post
                              Are we sure they had all the gear out? There was this body gear only landing in 2016 due to maintenance forgetting to insert rigging pins in the mains which resulted in a misrigged landing gear lever. Theoretically, it could happen again. I imagine landing without the mains in a good crosswind might get you rocking onto the engines.

                              http://aerossurance.com/safety-manag...tenance-error/
                              Not that I heard. And I have spoken to a few still there in the training center.

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