Incredible pilots' experience

[Evan]

So do you think that Bonin would have not benefited of better manual flight experience and skills in general (even in a Cessna)? Or Renslow would not have benefited of mastering stalls in a Cessna? And the way Molin used the rudder, he learned it in upset recovery training for transport category planes, because you don't do that in a Cessna.

I said it: puppy mill on steroids. Don't learn to fly airplanes, just learn to operate this type. Quickly!

I think it is beneficial to have as much experience as possible before ever setting foot in a 737 cockpit. I would prefer airline pilots to have aerobatics training but that's unrealistic. I'm just saying I'm not sure it makes that much of a difference to begin on GA aircraft with a PPL and is even necessary. Renslow apparently mastered stall recovery as much as many other PPL pilots as he became a GA flight instructor. He didn't know it occurs safely above stall in a Q400 when the ice reference speeds switch is activated, startling the f out of you, however. Molin used the rudder wrongly for any transport category aircraft, but in a way that is probably not going to structurally compromise a Cessna (so where's the harm in it, eh 3WE?). Bonin seemed new to the unusual aspects of the A330 systems, such as thrust lock and alternate law and perhaps the way a faulty ADR affects instrumentation. I have to imagine that any pilot who learned to fly on a specific type from day one, 2000 hours later is going to have a very good feel for and familiarity of the airplane.

I mean look at it this way: what if there were only 737's. Could a pilot still become a good pilot. Of course, with enough hours and the right instructors. Commercial pilots are culled from general aviation and trained on light aircraft for obvious practical and economic reasons, but I don't think it is the only way to go about it. I even think there might even be advantages (not practical and economic) to training on type from the very beginning.

[Evan]

Probably f up the sim

Let's find out!

[3WE]

And by the way, have you ever heard "you have to learn to walk before you can run"? I don't know you but I think it has some merit.

Is that like riding a bicycle?

[3WE]

Going slightly off topic- there is a side to me that you give someone 100% training for PPL (and instruments?) in MSFS. Then go spend 5 (10?) hours in a Cessna 1x2, solo, flight test and give them their license...

[Evan]

Is that like riding a bicycle?

It's like learning to ride a motorcycle when you've never learned to ride a bicycle. Not the way it's usually done, but entirely possible. If you had never ridden a bicycle but had 1000 hours of motorcycle riding experience, would that in itself make you a inferior motorcycle rider?

[3WE]

Indeed, a very bad idea...when you fall off the bicycle, and you will if YOU ever try, better to around below 20 MPH and a few lbs of metal tube than 60 MPH and hundreds of pounds of Hog.

[BoeingBobby]

Going slightly off topic- there is a side to me that you give someone 100% training for PPL (and instruments?) in MSFS. Then go spend 5 (10?) hours in a Cessna 1x2, solo, flight test and give them their license...

Does 9/11 ring a bell? One of them did get some sim time at PanAm here in Miami.

[3WE]

PPL

9/11

Not following you.

Is someone more likely to say, "not want learn land, just fly" in a real 172 vs a simulator?

The 9/11 bunch was trained in a rather traditional manner (flying lessons at a flight school). All those hours in real planes and instructors didn't catch on what they were planning ...How could doing it on a PC be worse?

I was just suggesting that simulators be used for A VERY LARGE PART of PRIVATE pilot training (emphasis on private). There is a LOT to be learned . $ to be saved and a reduction in early-solo prangs. Also possible reductions in getting lost and even IMC mishaps.

Give a person 20 hours of INSTRUCTION on a simulator...Let them shoot landings, fly places, work the Nav stuff forwards and backwards...Because it will be cheaper, TEACH THEM MORE! Instruments!

Yeah, you need to drive the real thing, but it was MSMS that taught me perspective (see footnote) to glide to the runway AND IT EVEN HELPED ME DO CROSSWIND LANDINGS IN REAL PLANES...(Yes, I lived it).

Don't take me literally on every last detail- but a LOT of good PRIVATE training could be done cheaply and more extensively in a sim. PS, I know this is ALREADY being done, but I'm wondering if it's time to rewrite the requirements for less hours in the tin can, replaced by 2X hours in the silicon one...(Kind a like you airline guys do).

Also, I think you have it backwards...after you get your basic PPL, then go to MSFS, dial up whatever airliner you want, get the manuals (Evan seems to be GOOD at that), find the autopilot-off button, study up on working the nav system and do a little work to where you can fly very half assed headings, speeds and altitudes...With this training, you can fly the plane to any number of bad endings (or in Gabriel's case, the proverbial ;"perfect landing" with your "real simulator").

Footnote: Before MSFS, my "final approaches" were a wild-ass guesses with as-needed throttle jockeying. After MSFS, in smooth weather, one power reduction, slide on down (monitoring stuff the whole way), but very few power adjustments....