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Embraer RJ 190 safest commercial jet in the world? Safest E190 Vs 737-800 please?

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  • #16
    Like I said in the beginning. Dumb post! But I guess you are all bored with air traffic down and nothing to gripe about. Carry on.

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    • #17
      conversation for conversation's sake.

      so, how bout them Dolphins????

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      • #18
        Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
        conversation for conversation's sake.

        so, how bought them Dolphins????

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        • #19
          One indication of a poor safety culture is how much previous experience a pilot-in-command (captain) is required to have as a first officer (co-pilot). In some cultures, former military pilots, even those with low hours, are routinely fast-tracked to the level of captain. The 2003 crash of Turkish 634 (an RJ 100) was largely due to overconfidence and a risk-prone mentality, things one tends to learn more in military and combat experience. No guts, no glory. Turkish Airlines is one of those cultures. Korean Air is another.

          Last year's Turkish Airlines (not-fatal) 738 accident is a classic case. The PIC had less than 500 hours when promoted to captain.

          http://avherald.com/h?article=4cf94b6d&opt=0

          The PIC proceeded to land with both a 25kt crosswind component and a 15kt tailwind component. He used a technique forbidded by the Boeing FCOM on dry runways, removing the crab angle after touching down rather than just beforehand. While this might work well enough with lighter military aircraft, it can be problematic with 68,000lb 737's. The pilot lowered the nose gear to the runway before correcting to the runway heading, thereby rendering the rudder mostly ineffective. He then tried to use the nosewheel steering at high speed, which only resulted in skid and the destruction of the tires.

          One thing about the parallel between type and safety here: unlike many large transport category aircraft, many (most?) 737NG's do not have a third axis for yaw control in their autoflight systems. Had the crew in this case chosen to autoland (assuming wind conditions allowed for it), they would still have had to manually decrab and maintain the runway heading during the rollout, so the outcome would have been the same. On the A320, the system will decrab automatically before touchdown and then maintain the runway heading during the rollout. You could argue that this makes it safer, but only during autolands, which are not always possible.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Evan View Post
            One indication of a poor safety culture is how much previous experience a pilot-in-command (captain) is required to have as a first officer (co-pilot). In some cultures, former military pilots, even those with low hours, are routinely fast-tracked to the level of captain. The 2003 crash of Turkish 634 (an RJ 100) was largely due to overconfidence and a risk-prone mentality, things one tends to learn more in military and combat experience. No guts, no glory. Turkish Airlines is one of those cultures. Korean Air is another.

            Last year's Turkish Airlines (not-fatal) 738 accident is a classic case. The PIC had less than 500 hours when promoted to captain.

            http://avherald.com/h?article=4cf94b6d&opt=0

            The PIC proceeded to land with both a 25kt crosswind component and a 15kt tailwind component. He used a technique forbidded by the Boeing FCOM on dry runways, removing the crab angle after touching down rather than just beforehand. While this might work well enough with lighter military aircraft, it can be problematic with 68,000lb 737's. The pilot lowered the nose gear to the runway before correcting to the runway heading, thereby rendering the rudder mostly ineffective. He then tried to use the nosewheel steering at high speed, which only resulted in skid and the destruction of the tires.

            One thing about the parallel between type and safety here: unlike many large transport category aircraft, many (most?) 737NG's do not have a third axis for yaw control in their autoflight systems. Had the crew in this case chosen to autoland (assuming wind conditions allowed for it), they would still have had to manually decrab and maintain the runway heading during the rollout, so the outcome would have been the same. On the A320, the system will decrab automatically before touchdown and then maintain the runway heading during the rollout. You could argue that this makes it safer, but only during autolands, which are not always possible.
            I was going to, but thought better of it.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

              I was going to, but thought better of it.
              C'mon, it's the only way I'll learn.

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              • #22
                Back in the 90's when Boeing purchased Douglas, Boeing had a big meeting in Seattle for all the world wide Boeing/Douglas operators. Chief Pilots/Chief Flight Engineers. One of the Boeing Engineers was making a presentation and at the end he commented on a picture of a 747 landing a Hong Kong's Kai Tac airport in a nearly 45 deg crab. "Boeing aircraft are capable of even landing in a severe crab," he says at the end of his presentation.

                Well then it was a Douglas Engineer's turn. He stepped up, introduced himself and said "first of all I want you all to know we, Douglas, never taught anyone to fly our aircraft like that!"

                He got a standing ovation!!!!!!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by kent olsen View Post
                  ...we, Douglas, never taught anyone to fly our aircraft like that!"
                  Never or generally?: https://youtu.be/COsT6DqkTDc
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                  • #24
                    Well they never taught pilots to land an airplane in a crab, not that many pilots didn't anyway. That meeting had all the old Chief Pilots who had been flying for many years and we were all taught, back then how to use the rudder pedals for more than a foot rest.

                    I remember 50 years ago flying in/out of Seattle Tacoma airport. They could get some very strong crosswinds. I was flying a Cessna 402 and later an Embraer Banderante. I found with a propeller it was easy to just pull the downwind engine back to idle ahead of the other engine and the nose would swing down the runway and just a little rudder and wing down and you were on. Wouldn't work with a jet.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

                      I was going to, but thought better of it.
                      Good call.

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