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  • #31
    Originally posted by Schwartz View Post

    Why do you think the culture hasn't changed? They have overhauled their executive team. The old guard is gone. Is there evidence the new crew is not safety minded?
    They need to publicly renounce their executive leadership from the era that led to Boeing's culture rot: James McNerney and Harry Stonecipher. More than that, they need to sue these men against the vast compensation they received while doing it (and continue to receive). Even if futile, the gesture would speak volumes to current and future executives and possibly aid and inspire other civil lawsuits.

    And then they need a build a proper 21st century replacement instead of simply cutting their losses with their bird in hand.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Evan View Post
      And then they need a build a proper 21st century replacement instead of simply cutting their losses with their bird in hand.
      Click image for larger version

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      • #33
        The 21st century replacement.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
          The 21st century replacement.
          I don't hate it.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Evan View Post

            They need to publicly renounce their executive leadership from the era that led to Boeing's culture rot: James McNerney and Harry Stonecipher. More than that, they need to sue these men against the vast compensation they received while doing it (and continue to receive). Even if futile, the gesture would speak volumes to current and future executives and possibly aid and inspire other civil lawsuits.

            And then they need a build a proper 21st century replacement instead of simply cutting their losses with their bird in hand.
            while i'm with you on the need to sue them, the unfortunate thing is that suits against former officers usually costs the company more than they are worth. to begin with, any executive worth the nameplate on his door/desk, will demand an indemnification clause in his/her contract, so that no matter what they do, the company has to indemnify them. furthermore, many state corporate laws require the company to indemnify directors. lastly, directors & officers insurance would cover defense and if the company wins, they will pay. the caveat there is that premiums skyrocket afterwards.

            it sucks.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Evan View Post

              They need to publicly renounce their executive leadership from the era that led to Boeing's culture rot: James McNerney and Harry Stonecipher. More than that, they need to sue these men against the vast compensation they received while doing it (and continue to receive). Even if futile, the gesture would speak volumes to current and future executives and possibly aid and inspire other civil lawsuits.

              And then they need a build a proper 21st century replacement instead of simply cutting their losses with their bird in hand.
              How do you know they've adopted the values of the leaders of the past? The whole upper echelon got or is still getting replaced. Not sure what evidence you have that they're carrying on as they were?

              Replacing the whole c-suite and upper management is as clear a statement as it gets. Lawsuits are a whole other matter. What do you propose they sue them for? Who should sue them?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Evan View Post

                They need to publicly renounce their executive leadership from the era that led to Boeing's culture rot: James McNerney and Harry Stonecipher. More than that, they need to sue these men against the vast compensation they received while doing it (and continue to receive). Even if futile, the gesture would speak volumes to current and future executives and possibly aid and inspire other civil lawsuits.

                And then they need a build a proper 21st century replacement instead of simply cutting their losses with their bird in hand.
                It's very very difficult to sue someone for culture. Civil lawsuits would have to prove that the leadership knew about safety issues or rules that were being violated. That's going to be near impossible. Technically, the board approved all the bean counting. They presided over the leadership. They are the ones who should be sued by shareholders for the loss of value. That may eventually occur, but again, they all have insurance, and unless they did something blatantly illegal or grossly incompetent, there will be no grounds to charge or sue them.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Schwartz View Post

                  Who should sue them?
                  To begin with, ironically, shareholders. These hugely-compensated men damaged the company's valuation and the brand value by adopting reckless policies and procedures. I also think survivors of those who died should be able to sue them against that huge compensation. If not, where is the deterrent? The reason hit and run capitalism is currently running amuck and ruining societies is because the punishments fail to exceed the crimes. There's money to be made in what Boeing execs did here. That's currently the bottom line.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Evan View Post

                    To begin with, ironically, shareholders. These hugely-compensated men damaged the company's valuation and the brand value by adopting reckless policies and procedures. I also think survivors of those who died should be able to sue them against that huge compensation. If not, where is the deterrent? The reason hit and run capitalism is currently running amuck and ruining societies is because the punishments fail to exceed the crimes. There's money to be made in what Boeing execs did here. That's currently the bottom line.
                    Like I said when I started this post, Evan, you didn't let me down. My personal recommendation is that you boycott Boeing entirely. Only fly on Airbus aircraft.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

                      Like I said when I started this post, Evan, you didn't let me down. My personal recommendation is that you boycott Boeing entirely. Only fly on Airbus aircraft.
                      I'm glad you find this all so amusing. But do try to distinguish Boeing senior management from Boeing engineers. It's the key to distinguishing what is from what could have been.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Evan View Post

                        To begin with, ironically, shareholders. These hugely-compensated men damaged the company's valuation and the brand value by adopting reckless policies and procedures. I also think survivors of those who died should be able to sue them against that huge compensation. If not, where is the deterrent? The reason hit and run capitalism is currently running amuck and ruining societies is because the punishments fail to exceed the crimes. There's money to be made in what Boeing execs did here. That's currently the bottom line.
                        ok, so riddle me this: you rail constantly for you perceive as safety issues. no one at or formerly at boeing is going to be prosecuted criminally. yet, you are begging for what is called a shareholder derivative lawsuit for damage to "value?" to replace lost money with insurance company money.

                        this is nearly as greedy as what the original numb nuts did. oh, and accomplishes absolutely ZERO in the way of preventing others from following in the former boeing execs' footsteps.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                          I knew you couldn't help yourself. Took the bait, hook, line and sinker!
                          Well, someone needs to suggest bringing back the 757. Some obscure dude named Sam Weigel at some magazine wrote that it’s a great airplane.
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 3WE View Post

                            Well, someone needs to suggest bringing back the 757. Some obscure dude named Sam Weigel at some magazine wrote that it’s a great airplane.
                            Yes, which Boeing should we resurrect from history, surgically alter, raise above the castle in a lightning storm and reanimate. That seems to be the prevailing strategy over there.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Evan View Post

                              Yes, which Boeing should we resurrect from history, surgically alter, raise above the castle in a lightning storm and reanimate.
                              Don’t ask stupid questions:

                              https://youtu.be/IrqN62qbthc
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 3WE View Post

                                Don’t ask stupid questions:

                                https://youtu.be/IrqN62qbthc
                                Now, that is some fine basic groundmanship.

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