Another Indonesian aircraft down

[Gabriel]

http://avherald.com/h?article=4e18553c/0004&opt=0

https://knkt.go.id/Repo/Files/Laporan/Penerbangan/2021/KNKT.21.01.01.04-Final-Report.pdf

[TeeVee]

Final report out: pilot error and a malfunctioning auto-throttle, oh, and a failure to properly train pilots. what a surprise!

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/faulty-automatic-engine-throttle-system-poor-pilot-monitoring-contributed-2021-2022-11-10/

[Gabriel]

good recipe for a cover-up. which a-holes dream this stuff up?

The idea is to centralize the investigation and information in one agency, with the rest of the involved parties collaborating with that agency.
Cover-ups can always occur, of course. But I don't see a recipe for cover up in this particular prescription. Other than their participation in the investigation, the parties receive the draft of the report and they can comment on it and the investigation agency has to reply to each of them before or at the moment of releasing the final report. Many times changes are incorporated in the final report as a result of these comments. After the final report is officially released, the parties are not bound anymore to not divulge information (because there is no party conducting the investigation anymore to whom to ask for consent). It was often the case that parties expressed their disagreement, and at times published their own independent final report.

But the cover up can happen because the investigating agency doesn't need to share the information with other parties nor to open the docket to other parties or the public once the investigation is over. Not by Annex 13 at least. Local laws my differ.

That said, the NTSB itself usually doesn't open the docket and doesn't release the flight recorders transcripts until the investigation is almost over. So....

[TeeVee]

good recipe for a cover-up. which a-holes dream this stuff up?

[Gabriel]

ICAO Annex 13, if I am not mistaken

ICAO Annex 13, #5.26:

Accredited representatives and their advisers:

a) Shall provide the State conducting the investigation with all the relevant information available to them, and
b) Shall not divulge information on the progress and findings of the investigation without the express consent of the State conducting the investigation.

[Gabriel]

where is that rule written?

ICAO Annex 13, if I am not mistaken

[TeeVee]

The investigation is still open. The parties participating in the investigation cannot release information until the final report is issued. The only one that can release information in the meantime is the investigating agency.

where is that rule written?

[Gabriel]

what do y'all think is going on here? i can understand indonesia burying the truth but aren't others involved in and have access to the records? is there some rule that prevents the others, such as boeing or the manufacturer of the cvr from disclosing the info?

The investigation is still open. The parties participating in the investigation cannot release information until the final report is issued. The only one that can release information in the meantime is the investigating agency.

[TeeVee]

what do y'all think is going on here? i can understand indonesia burying the truth but aren't others involved in and have access to the records? is there some rule that prevents the others, such as boeing or the manufacturer of the cvr from disclosing the info?

[Evan]

No updates related to the CVR readout, which is telling...

[Gabriel]

Today's Aviation Herald has some updates.

Yeah, not really an update about the accident itself.

Boeing identified a potential failure mode that could potentially lead to thrust asymmetry and issued a multi-operator memo that the FAA made it into an AD. But it seems that this failure mode is most likely NOT what caused the thrust asymmetry in this accident.

[Highkeas]

interesting an maybe worrying that 15 days after they downloaded the CVR there's been no word

Today's Aviation Herald has some updates.

[TeeVee]

interesting and maybe worrying that 15 days after they downloaded the CVR there's been no word

[Highkeas]

CVR downoaded
Cockpit voice recorder from crashed Indonesian jet downloaded successfully: investigator (msn.com)

[Evan]

Hey, that was a touch of humor. Not a kind word, but some humor, somehow... maybe.

Not as funny as 'mouse in cockpit' 'installed cat', but I'll be keeping my day job.