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Final report of Air Force Global Express one year ago

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Evan View Post

    Because it would have started. There was nothing wrong with the right engine and the APU was running. Also, AFAIK, the switch was found in the off position.
    "Eventually, the APU was started, indicating the MC likely later used it in an attempted Auto Turbine Start (ATS-)-assisted airstart (Tab J-181 and DD-15)."

    "The airspeed and later use of the APU suggest that both windmilling and APU-assisted airstarts were attempted (Tab DD-7, Tab J-181)."

    "There is no DFDR data to definitively confirm whether an engine airstart attempt was made (Tab J-36)."

    "There is no DFDR data to validate whether or not a left engine airstart attempt was made; however, the applicable checklists would have directed an airstart attempt (Tab AA-3 to AA-15). Attempts to airstart the left engine would have been aborted by the FADEC due to the damaged N1 (fan RPM) probe (Tab J-35)."

    seems you read a different report.

    there was nothing in the report that said anything about how the switches were after the crash. maybe because there were no switches left...

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Evan View Post

      This one happened above 42,000 ft. So nothing to consider there.
      No way to do an airstart at that altitude. Don't know the aircraft but I would say somewhere in the low 30's high 20's.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by TeeVee View Post

        "Eventually, the APU was started, indicating the MC likely later used it in an attempted Auto Turbine Start (ATS-)-assisted airstart (Tab J-181 and DD-15)."

        "The airspeed and later use of the APU suggest that both windmilling and APU-assisted airstarts were attempted (Tab DD-7, Tab J-181)."

        "There is no DFDR data to definitively confirm whether an engine airstart attempt was made (Tab J-36)."

        "There is no DFDR data to validate whether or not a left engine airstart attempt was made; however, the applicable checklists would have directed an airstart attempt (Tab AA-3 to AA-15). Attempts to airstart the left engine would have been aborted by the FADEC due to the damaged N1 (fan RPM) probe (Tab J-35)."

        seems you read a different report.
        The DFDR quit (by design) well before any airstart could have been attempted (as BoeingBobby confirms above). They would need to drift down below 37,000ft to start the APU (also not on the DFDR but obvious because the APU door was found open). The left engine was impossible to airstart because FADEC shut it down. The right engine was impossible to airstart because the run switch was in the off position. Had that switch been in the on position, there would be nothing preventing it from restarting.

        Unfortunately, TeeVee, in this case, some things need to be deduced without the benefit of DFDR data. Fortunately, we possess the power of deduction.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Evan View Post

          The DFDR quit (by design) well before any airstart could have been attempted (as BoeingBobby confirms above). They would need to drift down below 37,000ft to start the APU (also not on the DFDR but obvious because the APU door was found open). The left engine was impossible to airstart because FADEC shut it down. The right engine was impossible to airstart because the run switch was in the off position. Had that switch been in the on position, there would be nothing preventing it from restarting.

          Unfortunately, TeeVee, in this case, some things need to be deduced without the benefit of DFDR data. Fortunately, we possess the power of deduction.
          you sir are the poster boy for confirmation bias. incredibly, you completely IGNORE the FACT that the FDR recorded for less than 2 minutes after L engine failure. in that time, the 2 poor slobs did shut down the R engine. but neither you in all your brilliance, nor anyone else on this astral plain can say what happened after the FDR shut down (by piss poor design).

          1250:52 Fan blade breaks off, immediate shut down of L engine
          1251:02 Pilots begin playing musical throttles for several seconds
          1251:16 R engine switched off
          ~1251:23 R throttle set full power (???)
          1251:29 FDR shuts off

          they likely continued to glide, very much alive, for 18 more minutes, and evan is cock-sure that they did nothing during that time. maybe they were playing mahjong or something, eh?

          on another note, what friggin idiot designs an FDR that shuts off when both engines shut off? is it completely insane that the cvr shut off because of the "impact" of the L engine self-destructing? haven't there been many fan blade separations (contained and uncontained) where the cvr continued to function?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
            they likely continued to glide, very much alive, for 18 more minutes, and evan is cock-sure that they did nothing during that time. maybe they were playing mahjong or something, eh?
            Really, for the last time TeeVee, they concentrated their efforts on restarting the LEFT engine, cock-sure that the RIGHT engine was damaged and catastrophic to restart. Why? Because they did not take the steps BoeingBobby outlined above to CONFIRM the affected engine. How can we make this conclusion in the absence of DFDR data? Because we find no other reason for the right engine not being restarted, and because we (some of us, anyway) possess the power of reason. This is not the first time that the cause of an accident has been deduced from evidence in lieu of flight recorder readouts. That is why the people involved are investigators and not simply data translators.

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            • #66
              You need to really READ the report. unless of course you know more that the people that actually did the investigation. i'm guessing they know more than you and have better powers of reason and deduction, at least when it comes to crash investigation.

              although you maybe more advanced than they when it comes to knowing it all...

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              • #67
                Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                ...although you maybe more advanced than they when it comes to knowing it all...
                I have not been impressed with his bicycle-riding knowledge and experience.
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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