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Ex-military pilots in civil aviation

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
    Carry on.
    Great. Thank you.

    Comment


    • #17
      So, because someone shoots missles at me while I’m flying, I do not_particularly fear being 5 knots fast on final...

      That IS logical.

      I guess I better give up riding airliners, and maybe they should be banned...at least until I can choose military- or civilian-trained when I buy my ticket.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Evan View Post

        It this were my only job, sure, I would do that. You know, research is work. Why are you always asking me to do it for you. Look into it ATL. I'm not making it up.

        One easy place to start is the first post of this thread. I didn't write that finding. There are plenty of other incidents, but it seems that the phenomena is only recently being identified.
        huh? you make a statement about plenty of reports to.... then you admit to not having said reports and not wanting to research to find them.

        from now on, when evan says something, we all need to just accept it as the gospel of jetphotos.

        Comment


        • #19
          It’s possible that there’s a list of accidents where military persons had “A-10 wart hog plow through the $hit to hell with nitpicky stuff mentality” and then crashed an airliner due to reckless behavior. (See footnote)

          Footnote: Gabriel’s review of the need for valid statistical comparisons is acknowledged.

          A ‘trend’?- maybe arguably a little something to study...maybe...Uber maybe, subtlety interesting? BUT, the “Evan-clear-and-present-danger”, the “dirty little secret,” the “problem the industry refuses to address”...

          Naw- it’s just Evan’s home base: Pilots are cowboys. [with a little dot at the end]

          CONVERSELY, a military pilot brings extensive training, experience with complex aircraft, speed, altitude, jets, and at least SOME attention to detail and procedure.

          I don’t have the stats to back it, but trust the HR dept. that military pilots are generally a good thing.
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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          • #20
            There are military pilots doing reckless things, disregarding norms, and taking unnecessary risks, putting themselves and others at danger.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eebBjs507Yc

            But then there is the same thing in the non-military world.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HZODZwfYLw

            Whole airlines (countries? regions?) have been plagued by a very poor aviation safety culture causing many accidents.

            I do honestly wonder if we have a true case of ex-military pilots bringing a bad culture to the civil aviation world or if we have zones of bad culture infecting both the civil aviation and military aviation worlds.

            I am not leaning one way or the other. I am not saying that what Evan claims that happens doesn't happen. But I just don't know.

            And I agree with the rest, if Evan makes a claim, Evan should be ready to substantiate it or admit "well, it is just my impression, I don't really know if that's the case".
            Of course, saying Evan just because he brought the claim this time, but this applies for all of us, from Trump to myself.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

            Comment


            • #21
              Let's start over.

              A JU-52 went down in a fatal crash. The final report just came out. One of the principal causes of the fatal crash was the dangerous conduct of the flight. The investigation noted that the military background of the crew played a role in this:


              Originally posted by [B
              Switzerland's SUST[/B]]
              - In particular, the air operator’s flight crews who were trained as Air Force pilots seemed to be accustomed to systematically failing to comply with generally recognised aviation rules and to taking high risks...
              That is the text of an official accident report. Note the word 'systematically'.

              But this is not the first time we have heard of ex-military pilots conducting unsafe flights or paying for that misconduct with their lives and those of their passengers. We also know that, in some cultures, ex-military pilots are given favorable access to airline pilot jobs, often being promoted to pilot-in-command far sooner than non-military pilots.

              Military aviation is more risk prone by nature and necessity. It is also more deadly. Military aviation accidents have killed 224 pilots or aircrew and destroyed 186 aircraft since 2013. There has been a fair amount of press addressing a rising systemic safety problem in US military aviation.

              Again, I'm not dissing ex-military pilots in general. Some of the best ones, including Sullenberger, got started there. And the problem has revealed itself less in the US and Western Europe and more in places like Asia, Africa, Russia, etc.

              Or have we forgotten about Polish 101? Oh, right, that was brought down by a Russian death ray, Right.

              Unless you haven't been paying attention, you know this is a thing. I'm not here to make that case. I'm here wondering if anyone knows what the airline industry might be doing to address it.

              But perhaps this isn't the place for answers...

              Comment


              • #22
                "In particular, the air operator’s flight crews who were trained as Air Force pilots seemed to be accustomed to systematically failing to comply with generally recognised aviation rules and to taking high risks..."

                Note the word "seemed".......

                Comment


                • #23
                  and then of course is this laundry list that evan ignores.

                  - The aircraft was in poor technical condition.

                  - The aircraft was no longer able to achieve the originally demonstrated flight performance.

                  - The maintenance of the air operator’s aircraft was not organised in a manner that was conducive to the objective.

                  - The training of flight crews with regard to the specific requirements for flight operations and crew resource management was inadequate.

                  - The flight crews had not been familiarised with all critical situations regarding the behaviour of the aircraft in the event of a stall.

                  - The supervisory authority failed to identify numerous technical shortcomings or to take corrective action.

                  - The expertise of the individuals employed by the air operator, maintenance companies and the supervisory authority was in parts insufficient.



                  so 700 holes in the swiss cheese aligned and it somehow is an industry-wide probelm.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TeeVee
                    [A long list of issues with the Junkers crash]
                    An outstanding example, to which:

                    Originally posted by Evan
                    Pilots = cowboys. Pilots Bad.
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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