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Interesting little deicing story...

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  • Interesting little deicing story...

    Moderately interesting story here, and a few slices of swiss cheese...and maybe the slice that saved the day is sort of the wrong one...

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/observant...140440911.html

    Maybe some public physical punishment for the cockpit folks not checking this?

    Note to Bobby: Do you think the firing of Boeing executives might be in order here, here, too?

    One other tough question, would we, as passengers consider rushing the cockpit, to bang on the door and yell, "Dudes...there's a ton of snow on the wings!"?
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    Why would someone deice an airplane with Mountain Dew frosty?

    http://avherald.com/h?article=4e3e919d&opt=234

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
      Why would someone deice an airplane with Mountain Dew frosty?

      http://avherald.com/h?article=4e3e919d&opt=234
      That's Type IV ethylene glycol, which, I think, is relatively uncommon. It relies less on heat (it can be applied cold) and pressure so I wonder if they used very little of either here.

      Remember the deicing stooge who went to Home Depot for a (non-mixing) replacement nozzle? It comes down to the weakest link...

      I think it should be SOP that the head FA checks the wings for obvious contamination before rolling. (Pax seated, cabin secured, wings clear of snow.) Maybe it is...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Evan View Post
        I think it should be SOP that the head FA checks the wings for obvious contamination before rolling. (Pax seated, cabin secured, wings clear of snow.) Maybe it is...
        Originally posted by ATLCrew
        Noted

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        • #5
          Early 90's my Chief Flight Engineer and myself were airlining out of Portland Ore. Heavy snow on this morning departure. As we pushed out of the gate he says "can you see how much snow is on the wing?" I rang the flight attendant call chime and asked if they were going to de-ice the airplane. She said "no". I said then the Chief Pilot and Chief Flight Engineer of Evergreen Airlines would like to get off the airplane. When she came back from the flight deck the airplane stopped and the tug turned around and pulled us back into the gate. She said yes they were going to get di-iced.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kent olsen View Post
            I said then the Chief Pilot and Chief Flight Engineer of Evergreen Airlines would like to get off the airplane. When she came back from the flight deck the airplane stopped and the tug turned around and pulled us back into the gate...
            i really thought you were gonna say, "the Chief Pilot and Chief Flight Engineer of Evergreen Airlines can now get off the plane"

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            • #7
              Was it cold, and the snow light and fluffy? I’m guessing that stuff would blow off and present no problems...

              Then again...procedures and bent DC-9s...

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozar...nes_Flight_982

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Airlines_Flight_1713
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                Was it cold, and the snow light and fluffy? I’m guessing that stuff would blow off and present no problems...

                Then again...procedures and bent DC-9s...
                Maybe guessing isn't the best procedure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post

                  Maybe guessing isn't the best procedure.
                  Wow Evan...couldn’t help yourself...

                  I pretty clearly alluded to procedures and risks in my post, but even more so, your black and white mindset cannot comprehend light fluffy snow that blows off essentially completely.
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                  • #10
                    Yes, light and fluffy powder snow would blow away at a few knots. The problem is how do you know that all of that is light fluffy powder snow.
                    Therefore procedures and/or bent DC-9s.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      Therefore procedures and/or bent DC-9s.
                      Cool phrase, where did you come up with it?
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        3BS DC-9 crash references
                        Upon further review, ice and wet snow are cited in these crashes, not dry snow.

                        So, I’m still curious if Kent’s story might have been procedure bending because it was light and fluffy snow (and cold wings where there wouldn’t be melting nor stickyness.)
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post

                          Upon further review, ice and wet snow are cited in these crashes, not dry snow.

                          So, I’m still curious if Kent’s story might have been procedure bending because it was light and fluffy snow (and cold wings where there wouldn’t be melting nor stickyness.)
                          Thou shall not attempt take off with any kind of contamination on the wings.
                          It's dry snow? Don't need to deice? Bring a leaf blower and blow the dry snow (and make sure that there was no ice hidden underneath).
                          We don't want pilots, cabin crew, de-ice crews, etc, to judge the degree of powderness or stickiness of the snow and to assess the probability of having something more nasty hidden underneath. That judgment is going to go wrong sooner or later.

                          Sorry for the whiteandblackiness.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                            Sorry for the whiteandblackiness.
                            Sometimes it fits.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              there must also be some company policy involved. i left from CLE at the end of january, and while it was quite cold and there was some snow on the ground, it was not snowing. as we taxied to takeoff, we passed a frontier jet getting deiced. the wing they had not deiced was clean as a whistle. you could clearly see the chemical crap on the other wing.

                              no clue what weather if any the frontier flew through after takeoff, but we passed a few non-issue clouds and were in blue sky in no time.

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