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  • #46
    When you leave the automation on and do not check the automation mode, bad things can happen in ANY aircraft type.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Flight_521

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #47
      Originally posted by 3WE View Post

      WTF is MTC.
      MCT is Maximum Continuous Thrust whereas TOGA is maximum transient thrust.

      As for the rest, if you're not going to read what I post, then just please ignore it.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Evan View Post

        MCT is Maximum Continuous Thrust whereas TOGA is maximum transient thrust.

        As for the rest, if you're not going to read what I post, then just please ignore it.
        However you were dyslexic. Read what you wrote.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          1st act: What is the Pilot Monitoring doing now?
          2nd act: What is the A320 doing now?
          3rd act: What is the Pilot Flying doing now?

          Poor passengers....

          In the end, the PF eventually succeeded to control the plane in a very confusing situation, my sympathies for that.
          But apparently they only understood "why the plane was doing that" only after everything went back to normal. Which is fine in principle.
          But, in hindsight, the pilots should have FULLY clicked-clacked it (AP off, AT off, FD off) the instant that they started to wonder "what is it doing now". If you don't understand what the automation is doing, remove the automation, control the plane manually, fully stabilize the situation, and only then analyze "why was it doing that".

          http://avherald.com/h?article=49de3dbc&opt=234
          Jesus. I've just opened the avherald as I've done that so many times before. But pardon me, that avherald entry this time really seems like a Gabriel forum entry, i.e. you need exactly 40 minutes to read it.
          What I've read so far, it happened on an A320-200 between Eindhoven (!) and Sofia. Now, Eindhoven is a town which is 65 nautical miles (or 121 km) away from my home airport. I'd assume that most people in Eindhoven use Schiphol.
          But what I don't know, or better, I simply don't wanna look that up right now, is the distance between Eindhoven and Schiphol. Is Eindhoven nearer to Lohausen Intl, or to Schiphol?

          Erwin?
          The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
          The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
          And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
          Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
            When you leave the automation on and do not check the automation mode, bad things can happen in ANY aircraft type.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Flight_521
            This is a bit different. On the 777, the autothrust is active in IDLE after touching down and the go buttons will do nothing but if you move the thrust levers at that point, I'm pretty sure it will just disengage autothrust and leave you in manual control. So, in any case, modes are irrelevant. Once you are airborne again, the go-buttons become active again. The problem here was that they weren't familiar enough with how the automation worked on the ground. If they had practiced touch-and-goes, they might have known that this.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

              However you were dyslexic. Read what you wrote.
              ???

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Evan View Post

                ???
                Well. You are longer here on this platform than me. And the two of us are longer here on this platform than Bob.

                What I'm just wondering about, after all those years you still have ??? when you read what he writes?

                Really, very dear greetings from one "Senior" to the other "Senior".

                PS: How old is such a typical jetphotos Senior?
                The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
                The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post

                  ???
                  You put MTC n​​ot MCT! Hence the confusion. And thanks for the driving instructions LH!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post

                    Well. You are longer here on this platform than me. And the two of us are longer here on this platform than Bob.

                    What I'm just wondering about, after all those years you still have ??? when you read what he writes?

                    Really, very dear greetings from one "Senior" to the other "Senior".

                    PS: How old is such a typical jetphotos Senior?
                    But I actually have a pilots license!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Evan View Post

                      This is a bit different. On the 777, the autothrust is active in IDLE after touching down and the go buttons will do nothing but if you move the thrust levers at that point, I'm pretty sure it will just disengage autothrust and leave you in manual control. So, in any case, modes are irrelevant. Once you are airborne again, the go-buttons become active again. The problem here was that they weren't familiar enough with how the automation worked on the ground. If they had practiced touch-and-goes, they might have known that this.
                      It is a bit different, yes, but the key not_differetn bit is that they expected the autothrust to be in one mode (TOGA) but it was in a different mode (OFF or similar), however they relied on their expectation without checking to confirm that it had gone into the expected TOGA mode, which it hadn't. So the flight mofes and checking the FMA are not irrelevant.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

                        I actually have a pilots license!
                        But you will never be able to answer questions. How old are you. You are rather like a 12 year old son who tells me, look at me dad, I can ride a bicycle.

                        Well done, my son.

                        But in contrast to your 100 hp Cessna, for a jet you must be a teamplayer. I just wanted to ask you, are you a teamplayer. But that question is redundant. Every time when we meet here on this platform you show that you are the opposite of a teamplayer.

                        If I had to choose a team for the B744 cockpit, that were Gabriel, Evan, 3WE, and atlcrew.
                        The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
                        The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                        And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                        Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post

                          But you will never be able to answer questions. How old are you. You are rather like a 12 year old son who tells me, look at me dad, I can ride a bicycle.

                          Well done, my son.

                          But in contrast to your 100 hp Cessna, for a jet you must be a teamplayer. I just wanted to ask you, are you a teamplayer. But that question is redundant. Every time when we meet here on this platform you show that you are the opposite of a teamplayer.

                          If I had to choose a team for the B744 cockpit, that were Gabriel, Evan, 3WE, and atlcrew.
                          Are you sure?

                          I can give testimonial that BB is a (now retired) 747-200/300/400/Dreamlifter captain. Not to mention other jet and propeller multi-engine airplanes that he flew as captain and FO with passengers and /or cargo in the back.

                          But, of course, he doesn't have your or my tenure or number of posts in this forum (although he is older than you and me... combined!)

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

                            You put MTC n​​ot MCT! Hence the confusion.
                            3WE did that, not me.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Evan View Post

                              3WE did that, not me.
                              Because you went back and corrected it. I saw it as well and just figured because it was an Airbus they called it max thrust continuous. You know the way the Brits like to be different.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post

                                Well. You are longer here on this platform than me. And the two of us are longer here on this platform than Bob.

                                What I'm just wondering about, after all those years you still have ??? when you read what he writes?

                                Really, very dear greetings from one "Senior" to the other "Senior".

                                PS: How old is such a typical jetphotos Senior?
                                You wonder why I like to hassle you? You constantly post superfluous and inane posts. They rarely have anything to do with the topic of the thread. They are mostly filled with geography lessons about Germany. And you think because you have been watching airplanes for over "35" years and fly your computer simulator, it makes you a pilot. You also seem to think that the length of time and the amount of posts on this site have something to do with experience. And it's fun to ruffle your feathers. Carry on.

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