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  • #31
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post

    You mean SEEMINGLY spontaneous- pretty sure the exploding batteries happen because of a fault, not truly spontaneous- similar to your paramedic experience, I’ve never seen a battery spontaneously (or seemingly spontaneously) catch fire.

    Plus, I think I’m more scared of something else causing the fire- a short circuit, a goose whacks the batteries…indeed these things didn’t act so great on 787s- and now we want 100,000? X storage and wattage.
    ok. what external events caused the battery fires in the 787?

    here's a quote from a guy that suffered $1,000,000 in damage because his tesla caught fire while parked in his garage. “Gasoline driven cars don’t catch fire in the garage when they’re sitting there. And that’s the difference,” he said. “I don’t worry about [my] Audi catching fire downstairs when it’s not running.”

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    • #32
      Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
      here's a quote from a guy that suffered $1,000,000 in damage because his tesla caught fire while parked in his garage. “Gasoline driven cars don’t catch fire in the garage when they’re sitting there. And that’s the difference,” he said. “I don’t worry about [my] Audi catching fire downstairs when it’s not running.”
      I know a person whose home "spontaneously" caught fire due to a short in its electric system. The house of another person (this one a direct friend of mine) spontaneously caught fire earlier this year when his water heater malfunctioned. Let's ban all things that can, and ever had, spontaneously caught fire. Don't bother measuring the probability or frequency of such events. That doesn't seem to be relevant.

      Yes, the failure modes that lead to fires are different for electric cars than for gasoline cars. Yet, for whatever failure mode, gasoline cars burn more often than electric cars (as % of the fleet, not just absolute numbers).

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

        I know a person whose home "spontaneously" caught fire due to a short in its electric system. The house of another person (this one a direct friend of mine) spontaneously caught fire earlier this year when his water heater malfunctioned. Let's ban all things that can, and ever had, spontaneously caught fire. Don't bother measuring the probability or frequency of such events. That doesn't seem to be relevant.

        Yes, the failure modes that lead to fires are different for electric cars than for gasoline cars. Yet, for whatever failure mode, gasoline cars burn more often than electric cars (as % of the fleet, not just absolute numbers).
        Gabe, you better look up spontaneous combustion. Neither of your two examples are spontaneous.

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        • #34
          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spon...20autoignition.

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          • #35
            I may be being a little tough on the lawyer- I think he’s trying to say that batteries are worse than gas… But using heavily anecdotal evidence and bending definitions…but screw accuracy, it’s all about getting the jury emotionally swayed.

            But I agree, those damn hover boards and that one model of galaxy phone…not ready to trust these super batteries yet.
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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            • #36
              dont you fret none 3bs, i gots me some thick skin. anecdotal evidence? as in what, the battery fires on the dream(nightmare)liner? you never did answer that.

              and while i dont expect anyone here except maybe evan, to do 700 hours of research, i'm still waiting for someone to show me evidence of gas powered vehicles erupting into flames without a crash or external forces. there have been plenty of cases of battery powered stuff catching fire from their own internal flaws, be they teslas, samsungs, apples, oranges, boeings, or the 9,000,000 cheapo chinese powerbanks that have caused more than a handful of fires--on and off-board.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                and while i dont expect anyone here except maybe evan, to do 700 hours of research,
                I don't have to. My car caught on fire quite spontaneously in the middle of Wyoming. I later found out that one of the carbs had a sunken float and the excess fuel bleedng out of the float bowl vent collected on the manifold and voila, combustion. No crash needed.

                The 787 was a similar story, internal flaws, the result of outsourcing, the result of an executive management cancer focused on boosting profits for short-term shareholder value. I may have mentioned this before...

                Batteries, done right, corners not cut and undamaged do not burst into flames.



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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post

                  I don't have to. My car caught on fire quite spontaneously in the middle of Wyoming. I later found out that one of the carbs had a sunken float and the excess fuel bleedng out of the float bowl vent collected on the manifold and voila, combustion. No crash needed.

                  The 787 was a similar story, internal flaws, the result of outsourcing, the result of an executive management cancer focused on boosting profits for short-term shareholder value. I may have mentioned this before...

                  Batteries, done right, corners not cut and undamaged do not burst into flames.


                  You can be such an idiot

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                  • #39
                    a car with a carburetor? ok, so we are talking, what, 1980's tech? awesome. thanks for the input.

                    besides the above, i never said gas powered vehicles don't spontaneously burst into flames. i do contend it's a rare event.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                      and while i dont expect anyone here except maybe evan, to do 700 hours of research, i'm still waiting for someone to show me evidence of gas powered vehicles erupting into flames without a crash or external forces.
                      They do. Other than carburetor failures you have fuel lines / filters damaged or loose, engine ruptures, and electric fires too (one of our cars had an electric fire in the engine compartment that we could quickly put out with an extinguisher). You also have fires started by oil or fuel dripping in hot parts like exhaust pipes.

                      there have been plenty of cases of battery powered stuff catching fire from their own internal flaws, be they teslas, samsungs, apples, oranges, boeings, or the 9,000,000 cheapo chinese powerbanks that have caused more than a handful of fires--on and off-board.
                      Have there been plenty of electric car fires?

                      i never said gas powered vehicles don't spontaneously burst into flames. i do contend it's a rare event.
                      Right. Unlike electric cars that get ablaze every other day. Each of them.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TeeVee
                        i never said gas powered vehicles don't spontaneously burst into flames. i do contend it's a rare event.
                        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        Right. Unlike electric cars that get ablaze every other day. Each of them.
                        I believe that's checkmate.

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                        • #42
                          Screw batteries and nukes. We already have very decent solar powered aeroplanies.

                          These can have amazing range.

                          Night flight is more limited, but not impossible.

                          For now; however, the lavatories are pretty tight.

                          https://youtu.be/BmmLyh7ZIBI
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                            dont you fret none 3bs, i gots me some thick skin. anecdotal evidence? as in what, the battery fires on the dream(nightmare)liner? you never did answer that.
                            I don’t trust hover boards.

                            I don’t trust Samsung Galaxy Note 7s.

                            I don’t like the idea of lithium ion battery aeroplanes.

                            You’ll just have to venture a guess on the 787 batteries and forever wonder if I got it right.
                            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              They do. Other than carburetor failures you have fuel lines / filters damaged or loose, engine ruptures, and electric fires too (one of our cars had an electric fire in the engine compartment that we could quickly put out with an extinguisher). You also have fires started by oil or fuel dripping in hot parts like exhaust pipes.



                              Have there been plenty of electric car fires?


                              Right. Unlike electric cars that get ablaze every other day. Each of them.
                              sorry gabe, this is not a valid argument. you posted an article which had, at best, vague references to vague occurrences and failed to give solid stats. i questioned your position, and your response has been more of the same.

                              i guess that there exists some database somewhere that would give detailed info on all of the above, but i have neither the time nor inclination to search for it. maybe evan can dig it up. then again, maybe not.

                              https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookec...h=1dfa11445af8

                              OF NOTE: "But the National Fire Protection Association is not as definitive and said this in 2020: “While hybrid and electric vehicles have become more common, existing data collection systems have not yet adequately captured the frequency of fires involving these specific vehicles.”

                              i doubt dangerously electrically powered airplanes will be shuttling pax around during my lifetime and if they are, i will avoid them. i'd rather take my chances on spontaneously combusting current tech.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TeeVee View Post

                                i doubt dangerously electrically powered airplanes will be shuttling pax around during my lifetime and if they are, i will avoid them. i'd rather take my chances on spontaneously combusting current tech.
                                What about non-dangerously electrically-powered airplanes? As Gabriel predicted here, these might not be battery-powered, but rather powered by (potentially flammable) hydrogen fuel cells or a standard (marginally flammable) turboshaft.

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