Light plane crashes

[Gabriel]

Kent, while I don't disagree with your last post, I don't get your point.

[kent olsen]

Well professional pilots are trained and retrained repeatedly and yet they still make mistakes that cost lives. Then the private pilots training is short and they have accidents that cost lives as well. Flying is a wonderful experience and profession but again, as I told my crews "you are up there by the grace of God since I don't see any feathers on your arms." Just be careful and don't go beyond your own limits. For the private flyers, as my old instructor told me, every time you go flying take two minutes and consider what you would do, where you could go, if the engine quit.

[Evan]

For the private flyers, as my old instructor told me, every time you go flying take two minutes and consider what you would do, where you could go, if the engine quit.

Okay, hmmm... Down.

Professional airline pilots have the advantage of redundancies for most common mission-critical failures. You lose a thing, you fly on the back-up thing. In the rarest turn of events, when the recent PIA A320 lost both things (by landing on them and taking off again) they also went... down. I would wager that GA accidents are higher for this reason, among others. That PC-12 crash I mentioned here could have been loss of power after takeoff. But I think the real factor is, as you said, the quality of training that goes into professional piloting. By quality I don't just mean about the basics or airmanship, which are learned by the time a pilot goes to the major league anyway. I mean about the limitations, the pitfalls, the traps, the stealth factors, the distractions, the cut corners, the fatal assumptions... the human factors. That lesson about hubris seems to be what these cliches you keep dropping are meant to teach. I don't think enough GA pilots ever learn them.

[LH-B744]

Well professional pilots are trained and retrained repeatedly and yet they still make mistakes that cost lives. Then the private pilots training is short and they have accidents that cost lives as well. Flying is a wonderful experience and profession but again, as I told my crews "you are up there by the grace of God since I don't see any feathers on your arms." Just be careful and don't go beyond your own limits. For the private flyers, as my old instructor told me, every time you go flying take two minutes and consider what you would do, where you could go, if the engine quit.

I do not either see feathers on my arms. That's a good saying.

The old question which exists at least since Captain Chesley Sullenberger III . What can I do when all the engines have left me.

A Pilatus PC-12 has one engine, that's what I have learned one minute ago.
I like sayings, but after all those years as an aviation enthusiast, I count more than 35 years on my home airport, I still don't know if you can teach one thing. Sense of responsibility.

If you are alone in your PC-12, you can almost do whatever you like, assumed that nobody on the ground will be harmed. But that changes, if your copilot sits next to you,
and up to 9 passengers behind you, assumed that we sit in a PC-12 turbopropeller.

Greetings, Mr Olsen.

PS: Sometimes I hear when people wonder if there is no music about aviation. I know that I am offtopic for a second, but once that I have such an experienced man here by my side. I only listen to music radio stations when on the ground, and that's where we come back on topic. Charlie Dore - Pilot of the airwaves (1979) . I don't know if that's really a song about aviation, but.. one year younger than me, can't be bad.

[Gabriel]

Well professional pilots are trained and retrained repeatedly and yet they still make mistakes that cost lives. Then the private pilots training is short and they have accidents that cost lives as well. Flying is a wonderful experience and profession but again, as I told my crews "you are up there by the grace of God since I don't see any feathers on your arms." Just be careful and don't go beyond your own limits. For the private flyers, as my old instructor told me, every time you go flying take two minutes and consider what you would do, where you could go, if the engine quit.

Do you realize that accidents happen most of the times in chain of circumstances where the pilot was either not up to the task, or didn't assess and manage risk correctly, or was reckless, or directly criminally negligent? Do you think that saying "be careful out there guys" is going to fix this? Why don't you try to say "hey guys, don't drink and drive, don't use your cellphone while driving, and don't speed"? If they listened to you, you automatically saved dozens of thousands of lives per year. But they won't, firt because they are not reading this forum, and second because it's not like they don't know the dangers of what they are doing, and the still do it.

[LH-B744]

Hm. I tried to be polite to Mr Olsen, as I know how young he is. Once since 2016, Mr Olsen and I have exchanged our years of birth. I don't like to repeat that in public, because he has deleted that information from his profile.

And then there comes the soon very very very very old man and he destroys everything which I tried to create before October the 22nd. Friendly atmosphere, a good place to talk, ...

Yes, there are idiots out there who are criminally negligent. But as long as I am old enough to drive, i.e. since 25 years, I try to avoid these idiots.

And I don't know if I were so directly aggressive to Mr Olsen if I knew that Olsen is old enough to be "my old instructor".

But hey, Mr Olsen is definitely old enough to defend himself.

[LH-B744]

Gabriel. I so very very much hope that the happening which is next to you will proceed in the way you expected it to happen when you were 10 years younger. And you know why I hope that?

Because I am the next one. Alex is younger than me, 8 or 9 weeks, so I am the next one!!

But did I think much about the future when I was 40. Probably not, it just happens. So. What would I do on such a day. No doubt. I'd be in the air, up where we belong. Not necessarily alone, but with friends. And someone is always responsible for the music when back on the ground, most of the time that's me. Believe me, the turntable is already runnin hot.
You aggressive young man.

And now back on topic.

[Gabriel]

Thank you. By the way, I just came from the mechanic and she gave me the plan for the mid-life D-check. Preventive maintenance, NDTs, and all.

[BoeingBobby]

It's F*****g amazing the S**t you ramble on about LH. You really are hung up on the years on the planet thing aren't you? "Back on topic?" You were never on topic!

[3WE]

Well professional pilots are trained and retrained repeatedly and yet they still make mistakes that cost lives. Then the private pilots training is short and they have accidents that cost lives as well. [snip].

Like Gabriel, I’m not sure what the point is OR (APOLOGIES)- We beat this to death a LONG time ago.

Major airline safety: Crazy good
Regional TURBOPROP safety: Still great, but statistically worse.
Regional RJ safety: Uber ridiculously crazy good.
Light plane travel: Really bad
Light plane farting around: Statistically better than “travel”.

The airlines:
-Well trained
-Focused “only” on flying
-Two pilots and good CRM
-Nicely redundant, reliable, well maintained equipment
-Good automation and systems
-Capable aircraft- ice, turbulence, high altitudes

Light planes:
-Much lower training (BFR=Recurrent training)
-Sight seeing, or worse: Trying to get to a business meeting/vacation
-A good bit of single pilot, CRM less rehearsed
-Pistons and one engine and stats that say 2 engines are worse (double the risk of an engine failure). Maintenance- all over the place
-Varied automation AND ABILITY TO USE IT WELL (JFKJR crashes a fancy autopilot plane)
-Likely not certified for ice, low altitude, weather radar???, wind gusts harder on plane.

Hell yeah, it ADDS UP- AND, I think I have an omission or two.

Then again- the amazing safety records of regional jets and lower time puppy mill pilots.

OR Cape Airways flying piston twins all over creation, single pilot with what WAS a hellacious safety record.

Bottom lines:

1. Yes.
2. Beaten to death
3. Numerous exceptions exist
4. More complicated than catchy, albeit wise, phrases

[kent olsen]

Here's another one I found on the Aviation Safety Network. Metroliner, probably a freighter, landed short somewhere in New Jersey, killing the pilot, no one else on board. He reported an engine failure on final. Reminded me of way back flying twin Cessna 402's. I was the Chief Pilot so the FAA always gave me my 6 months check. I remember he liked to give me an engine failure just before I got to minimums on an NDB approach.

[3WE]

“He was a very good and cautious pilot.”

”This [sort of thing] would not happen to me.”

[flashcrash]

More and more light plane crashes every week??????

On average there are fewer fatalities in general aviation in the USA every year. In addition, fatalities per 1000 hours is now 1/4 of what it was when the stats began.

U.S. General Aviation Safety Data | Bureau of Transportation Statistics (bts.gov)

[Gabriel]

Given that the US has seen more than 4 fatal general aviation accidents per week since GA is a thing, the question of "More light plane crashes every week?" is akin to "More sunsets every day?"

[3WE]

So, roughly 2X more dangerous than driving?