Originally posted by ATLcrew
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Second Turnback This Week Due to Unruly Pax
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Originally posted by EvanGreyhound of the skies. FA's need stun weapons. Convert some baggage area into a cage. There are also too many of us who are bonkers and the modest civic responsibilities during a pandemic seems to have played a big role in that.
Originally posted by GabrielNo. The topic was a 2nd turn back that was not related to masks or COVID, let alone food and agrochemicals.
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Posti've driven across the united states at least 6 times. i've flown over it dozens of times. there is no lack of space for growing crops and we produce WAY more produce then we consume, so at least in this country, dont blame cattle ranching for causing a shortage of space to grow food crops.
Regarding cattle... the problem with cattle (and with pork and chicken) is not the room they occupy, but the room their food production occupies. With the field where you produce food for cattle that will feed 1000 persons, you can produce food for 7000 persons. Literally. Food for animals is the leading use in deforested land. And yes, again, they could not deforest land and go produce in the rest of the land available that you mentioned. But if it is more convenient to do in in deforested land, they they are going to do it in deforested land. And it is greed but not only greed, or not only the producer greed. Because if there are 2 loafs of the same bread and one is double the price of the other, people is going to buy the cheaper one without caring of the story behind how it got to the the shelf of the supermarket, in the same way that we buy beef or chicken without caring about the story behind that. So the expensive bread would go bankrupt. And, if all there was was the expensive version, they would thrive but millions would starve.
we are never going to be all vegan and should not be.
Given the valid moral objections to animal farming and the enormous damage that it causes to the environment, and the fact that it is not necessary to survive, live healthy and thrive, I think eventually the norm will be veganism. We are nowhere close though.
God/nature did not design us to be so.
Luckily, God/nature also designed us with the ability to observe, gather data, reason, reach conclusions, and redesign ourselves accordingly. Well, some of us anyway. Then you have Putin.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Evan View Post
So, in other words, yes. The topic of this thread is an ongoing escalation of diversions, particularly mid-oceanic turnbacks, due to increasing belligerence toward flight attendants. That escalation began during the pandemic and is driven by the frustrations of grown-up children when asked to... grow up... and do their part for society. TeeVee has greatly illustrated that frustration for us here on this thread. Whether that belligerence involved masking or not, this trend is a consequence of the pandemic. Pax are becoming more emboldened by what they perceive to be solidarity against restrictions. They are staging a little revolution up there. I would say fenestrate them but, alas, the windows don't open.
clearly the number of "offenses" have gone up. but there have always been illegal upgraders, i've witnessed a handful myself, long before 2020. drunk idiots on planes has been a problem forever. increasing authoritarian attitude amongst flight attendants has been met with shittier attitude by the masses of arrogant idiots. pressure of overcrowding, intrusive (and mostly worthless) security, airline nickel and diming, have all led to the state of flying the day before sars-cov2 came on the stage.
i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the US has by far the highest number of these incidents. whether that is a function of relentless reporting of incidents or the generally shitty attitude of americans when they travel, i cant say. but having spent on average over 200 hours per year in the air alongside the masses, i can't say it has gotten markedly worse since january 2020. sure, the numbers dont lie. but dont they?
curious to hear what ATL's personal opinion on this is.
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Postclearly the number of "offenses" have gone up.
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Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostAnd you wonder why I liked flying boxes instead of people!
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Evan View Post
Yes! Massively! That's the topic of this thread. I don't think you grasp the concept of 'scale'. The flu is just the flu but when it becomes a pandemic, it's an unusual situation requiring unusual measures. We are having a pandemic of air rage at the moment. FA's need to be better equipped to deal with it. Hopefully, if the pandemic continues to ease, this trend will begin to decline but for the present, it's a serious aviation safety issue.
i think you would be best off not flying.
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Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
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Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
Perhaps...
I mean...if you're going to crash, at least crash at an airport. That's where big fire trucks are.
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Originally posted by Evan View Post
Right. An imperfect analogy. I might hover up here in the pattern just a bit longer and wait for the PIREP on ground conditions from traffic ahead. Not sure I have another go-around in me. But hopefully this will be a landing we all walk away from.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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