Second Turnback This Week Due to Unruly Pax

[ATLcrew]

You think maybe the horse is dead yet?

Evidently not. Our mighty "protectors" just extended the mouthdiaper mandate another 15 days. In order for to assess stuff, because Science (TM).

[ATLcrew]

And it has been astonishingly good at mutating.

And getting weaker with every mutation. As viruses do.

[Evan]

And getting weaker with every mutation. As viruses do.

True, but not assured. And that hasn't been established for the long-term, debilitating effects that have effected up to 30% of those infected, the cause of which are to this day not well understood.

And we still have the hospitalization, ICU and death rates of a pandemic—not an endemic nuisance—in Europe and Asia.

Let us not not go blindly back into the night. Another two weeks could make a difference.

FYI: It's a mouth-and-nose diaper, although a vast legion of morons never really figured that out.

[ATLcrew]

True, but not assured. And that hasn't been established for the long-term, debilitating effects that have effected up to 30% of those infected, the cause of which are to this day not well understood.

And we still have the hospitalization, ICU and death rates of a pandemic—not an endemic nuisance—in Europe and Asia.

Let us not not go blindly back into the night. Another two weeks could make a difference.

FYI: It's a mouth-and-nose diaper, although a vast legion of morons never really figured that out.

Fifteen days to slow the spread...I've heard that before somewhere.

[TeeVee]

maybe we should nominate evan and his band of obscure epidemiologists to replace our entire govt. clearly they know more than the rest of us.

the only thing that is happening now is positive tests. big effin deal. there are NO hospitals being overrun, morgues are not back-logged, and people are not dying at home. so SCIENCE says even if you get sick you aint gonna died. as for the tiny percentage of people that may still died from this crap, i'm sorry, the needs and freedom of the many outweigh the risk to the few.

if we acted like evan wants us to act all the time, every single food allergen would be banned because some people are allergic. not my problem. they can avoid what ails them and carry epi pens for times when my peanut dust wafts their way.

and what pray tell does this mean: "And that hasn't been established for the long-term, debilitating effects that have effected up to 30% of those infected, the cause of which are to this day not well understood."??? would you have us all wear masks for the next ten or fifteen years while your scientists study long-term effects? i mean, shit, if someone is going to suffer long-term effects, they've already had the damn thing!

[TeeVee]

Another two weeks could make a difference.

and it likely will not

[Evan]

obscure epidemiologists

I think I'm seeing the problem here. Something (and I think we all know what it is) is obscuring the wisdom and guidance of epidemiologists (who do, in fact, know more than the rest of us about how to behave during a pandemic involving a novel a infectious disease) from certain people (such as yourself).

Epidemiologists, like airline pilots, are people with a specialized knowledge and experience. When the pilot says remain seated with your seatbelt fastened, do that. Even if it seems oppressive to you. And when the broad consensus of epidemiologists says wear a mask in public a bit longer, do that. When a talking head or politician or drinking buddy tells you otherwise, tune them out.

You might live longer.

[TeeVee]

"Jennifer Nuzzo, the epidemiology lead at the Johns Hopkins University Coronavirus Resource Center, feels the use of mask mandates this late into the pandemic has done a disservice to a useful public health measure. Mandates are blunt instruments that were better suited to earlier in the pandemic, she said, when we had few tools with which to combat the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and hospitals were on the verge of collapsing under an avalanche of desperately sick Covid patients.

“We are in different circumstances now. We have more tools,” said Nuzzo, who is also a senior scholar at the Hopkins Center for Health Security. “Generally speaking, public health functions better when it is seen more like social workers than law enforcement. And I do think it is important for us to shift our approach to be not exclusively reliant on mandates.”

She supports shifting to a place where people are urged to wear masks when conditions require it. Taking the element of force out of the equation could help people to see masks through a different lens, she suggested.

“I would personally like to see us move towards a culture where instead of perhaps mandating masks to the point where the poor barista at Starbucks has to yell at people or call the police if they don’t come in with a mask that perhaps we make masks available at the entryway of buildings and say ‘Please use one, particularly if you have a cold’ or something along those lines,” Nuzzo said." (source: https://www.statnews.com/2022/02/25/...kely-will-not/).

"As the risk decreases, we can pull back on some of the recommended prevention strategies," said Dr. Benjamin Chan, the state epidemiologist. "We are no longer recommending universal face masks for people in indoor public locations, unless required in specific situations." (https://www.wmur.com/article/new-ham...46858/39192627)

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/02/...-end-of-march/


so, great wise one, which epidemiologists are you reading?

maybe this Harvard guy will convince you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...dates-flights/

oh wait, he's not an epidemiologist......

[Evan]

She supports shifting to a place where people are urged to wear masks when conditions require it. Taking the element of force out of the equation could help people to see masks through a different lens, she suggested.

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. As I've been saying, mandates came second. Before them came exactly what she is suggesting. Unfortunately, however well-versed Ms. Nuzzo is at epidemiology (and I'm sure she is an expert on that), she is as misled as John Locke (known as the 'father of liberalism") was in her estimation of the good in people and their willingness to sacrifice or suffer even the slightest prolonged inconvenience in the name of public health. Some are willing, of course, and would take heed and wear masks of their own volition, but too many would not, particularly in the midst of extraordinarily contagious mutations when even a small minority can prolong a pandemic. The math is conclusive: a vast number of infections from a less pernicious strain will apply a similar pressure on medical resources as a less vast number of infections from a more pernicious strain, and the past months in Europe have proven that, so everything in her proposal hinges on what exactly TeeVee? The good in people. And the selfishness in people.

I'm not in favor of mandates anymore than she is, but unlike her, I recognize that there is no other choice. When people are unwilling to freely protect their societies, there can no longer be free societies.

But the most important thing seems to have evaded you here: she is still "urging" masking in public spaces 'when conditions require it' (as they presently do). You brought her here TeeVee. Take her advice.

[3WE]

Glyphosate was 99% effective at controlling pigweed.

But 0.5 million seed/plant, 0.5 million plants/acre, millions of acres.

But mutations…

Weeds is gonna weed, virus is gonna virus, a wide range of pathogens are gonna kill some humans…

Because, science. Please note the lack of blue font.

Cockroaches surviving a nuclear holocaust? I am less clear on this science, but it might be worth betting a beer.

PM me if you wish to discuss additional herbicides or weeds.

[TeeVee]

now we are seeing the real evan. first he eludes to epidemiologists that support his view, of which he has produced ZERO. then when confronted with what some REAL epidemiologists are saying publicly, he cherry-picks his way through the articles. "when conditions require it as they presently do"? who said they currently do besides you? did she publicly state this somewhere? has any other legitimate epidemiologist said this? show us the proof.

of course evan also completely ignores an acknowledged expert when it comes to the very heart of this thread--one evan himself started. masks are not really needed on airplanes. in fact, having spent a considerable more amount of time onboard than evan, i can tell you that at any given moment, more than half of the pax are not wearing their masks and even more not wearing them properly. yet, despites evan's expertise on the subject, air travelers are not being died at any higher rate thatn the rest of us non-flying, non-conforming humans.

though one of my degrees is in philososphy, i do not claim to know it all or be an expert. you, however, couldnt be further from the truth. our society is, for the largest part, proof that Locke was mostly correct. he never said all people would be good of their own volition all the time. in fact, he admitted that human nature could also make people selfish, yet, he believed in the social contract. he believed that the government should be beholdent to the people and have LIMITED control over the individual. i dont think our country is very lockean, as our govt has more control over us than locke would want. i'm not 100% sure what locke would say about mask mandates.

at the end of the day, it comes down to personal choice and freedom: do what you believe is good for you. if i choose not to wear a mask that is my right. your desire to demand that i wear a mask doesn't trump my right.

clearly, whomever it is that is whispering into the "scientists" ears or maybe even they themselves, have decided that the time came a while ago to rid society of the forced masking.

as for your false assertions about the state of affairs in europe, maybe you should look here to see the precipitous DROP in hospitalizations since january 19. pay close attention to the european countries listed.

[3WE]

We have a new variant within a variant CoVid-19 Omicron BA2…

More cool code language, more mandates, more vaccines…

Did someone mention code language?

Let there be: XE

Isn’t that the medium trim level for an F-150 pickup, or is it the latest 737?

[Not_Karl]

PM me if you wish to discuss additional herbicides or weeds.

No. Please share publicly how you are poisoning us.
Thanks in advance.

[flashcrash]

Looks like the ethical arguments are going to have to take second place to the legal ones for the time being. A federal judge has ruled that the mask mandate is unlawful on the basis that the CDC does not have the authority to apply detention and quarantine restrictions to US citizens:

CDC mask mandate for travelers struck down by federal judge - CNNPolitics

[ATLcrew]

Looks like the ethical arguments are going to have to take second place to the legal ones for the time being. A federal judge has ruled that the mask mandate is unlawful on the basis that the CDC does not have the authority to apply detention and quarantine restrictions to US citizens:

CDC mask mandate for travelers struck down by federal judge - CNNPolitics

I saw that announcement as well. It looks like, much like eviction moratorium and vaccine mandate, the mask mandate is/was another example of Federal Government trying to do things (however well-intentioned) it does not have the authority to do or at least to do them in a way that does not comply with relevant laws (I'd love to hear TeeVee's opinion on this). I'm curious how far the Justice Department will take this, especially since the mandate is allegedly going to expire on May 3rd, because Science (TM).