Second Turnback This Week Due to Unruly Pax

[ATLcrew]

The 737 rudder issue was the result of a lack of redundancy (a rather familiar malady at Boeing). The danger was in plain sight but overlooked. That doesn’t happen in modern vaccine science.

WHHAAAAAAT?!!!!!

[3WE]

And a question: "GMOs: Few understand the REAL risk, which is actually an ethics question"

To some extent DNA is DNA is DNA.

So, let's take a gene from a tomato, put it into rice and save the vision of a bunch of Africans: Golden rice - Wikipedia Cool, right?

Or, let's take a gene for human insulin and try it in pigs and bacterial soups and rice and make cheap insulin. Also cool. (Oh shit, is business and politics affecting the price of insulin?)

Let's take a gene out of a bacterium that synthesizes a long-used, gentle, natural, organic-approved insecticide called DiPel and put it in corn plants so the ears don't get eaten by ear worms. This replaces harsher, synthetic insecticides. Anyway, us aggies thought this was a good thing to do***...not sure about everyone else.

Now, let's take a gene out of a bacterium, and put it into a soybean plant so a herbicide won't kill it. A big company makes money, and a farmer can more easily grow soybeans to make soybean oil to become biofuel for jets (or feed to cows so Gabriel can eat steak). (This also enables reduced tillage, greatly reducing soil erosion) (Some people don't like this- since a particular herbicide is used more and the evil chemical company profits)

Now, let's get a stray hair off of Lionel Messi. Get the DNA and copy a bunch of his genes and insert it into some eggs from my wife...NOT from his sperm, I'm talking VERY PARTICULAR GENES that give you the right musculature and brain function, so I MY KID CAN BE THE NEXT GREAT SOCCER PLAYER.

And here's the catch- I'm not saying it's THAT easy to identify Lionel's greatness genes, and it's work to isolate and clone them, but (BACK TO THE BEGINNING) to some extent DNA is DNA is DNA and technology and techniques are continually improving...right...

BOOM An ethical problem.

I don't doubt Evan could write a law prohibiting this (TeeVee might even help)...but hey, if you got enough money, maybe there's a DNA scientiest somewhere (someone pissed off from developing CoVid vaccines) that might be available to help you in in some other country, etc.

***I'm sure Boeing thought an effortless, background, trim-for-the-fat-forward-engine-nacelles system was a good idea too.

[Evan]

WHHAAAAAAT?!!!!!

There are rare dangers that do not reveal themselves in scientific study or human study trials, but will reveal themselves only when large populations are exposed to a vaccine. That risk is minimized by the aforementioned science and research trials. But it most definitely NOT in plain sight and overlooked. The vaccine research utilized to develop the mRNA Covid-19 vaccines was and is about as rigorous as humanly possible. Thus the extraordinarily rare number of negative outcomes associated with over five billion injections.

[Gabriel]

Now, let's get a stray hair off of Lionel Messi. Get the DNA and copy a bunch of his genes and insert it into some eggs from my wife...NOT from his sperm, I'm talking VERY PARTICULAR GENES that give you the right musculature and brain function, so I MY KID CAN BE THE NEXT GREAT SOCCER PLAYER.

Everything can be used for good or evil. Explosives, nuclear reactions, computers, genetic manipulation....
We have been manipulating genes and engineering ADN into organisms for millennia (and most of that time we didn't even know that we were doing just that). Almost everything we eat, from cows to eggs, from bananas to avocados, has been genetically modified by humans to make it tastier, more resistant to unfavorable conditions, or more yieldy. Be it by artificial selection, breeding, cross-breeding and grafting. Selecting particular genes of one organism and inserting it into a different species is just our latest too.

By the way, your son with the manipulated ADN to incorporate Messi's gene for football genius would be genetically manipulated child but a bioengineered child, because that gene already occurred in humans at least once (assuming that Messi is human, which some doubt). Bioengineered foods (or children?) are (by law) those that contain detectable genetic material that has been modified through certain lab techniques and cannot be created through conventional breeding or found in nature.

[3WE]

***By the way, your son with the manipulated ADN to incorporate Messi's gene for football genius would be genetically manipulated child but a bioengineered child, because that gene already occurred in humans at least once (assuming that Messi is human, which some doubt). Bioengineered foods (or children?) are (by law) those that contain detectable genetic material that has been modified through certain lab techniques and cannot be created through conventional breeding or found in nature***.

DAMN…DID I NOT SAY THAT AT SOME LEVEL, DNA IS DNA, AND THE TECHNOLOGY AND TECHNIQUES TO MOVE IT AROUND IN A HIGHLY CONTROLLED FASHION IS A GENERAL ISSUE?????????

THE GENE JOCKEYS MOVING GENES FROM BACTERIA TO PLANTS ARE PRETTY DAMN GOOD AT MOVING GENES FROM HUMAN TO HUMAN…MINOR TWEAKS ON SIMILAR METHODS.

BUT PLEASE, SPEW 15 SUB CATEGORIES OF TRANSGENE VS BREEDING VS MAN MADE VS NATURAL TRANSGENES. TRY TO SEE THE FOREST, MAN, IT’S ENLIGHTENING!

YES, I’M YELLING!

[Gabriel]

DAMN…DID I NOT SAY THAT AT SOME LEVEL, DNA IS DNA, AND THE TECHNOLOGY AND TECHNIQUES TO MOVE IT AROUND IN A HIGHLY CONTROLLED FASHION IS A GENERAL ISSUE?????????

THE GENE JOCKEYS MOVING GENES FROM BACTERIA TO PLANTS ARE PRETTY DAMN GOOD AT MOVING GENES FROM HUMAN TO HUMAN…MINOR TWEAKS ON SIMILAR METHODS.

BUT PLEASE, SPEW 15 SUB CATEGORIES OF TRANSGENE VS BREEDING VS MAN MADE VS NATURAL TRANSGENES. TRY TO SEE THE FOREST, MAN, IT’S ENLIGHTENING!

YES, I’M YELLING!

I THINK YOU MISSED MY POINT

Sorry. I think you missed my point. Which is exactly, yea, genetic manipulation is genetic manipulation and the tools used for GMOs / bioengineered foods is just a subset in the toolset used for genetic manipulation. So what is the all the fuss with GMOs that is not there with not-officially GMOs but still genetically modified wheat, bananas, mandarins, Angus cows, chickens and, I don't know, Dalmatian dogs?

[Evan]

To some extent DNA is DNA is DNA.

I don't doubt Evan could write a law prohibiting this (TeeVee might even help)...but hey, if you got enough money, maybe there's a DNA scientiest somewhere (someone pissed off from developing CoVid vaccines) that might be available to help you in in some other country, etc.

Not sure what you're on about, but DNA is certainly not RNA.

[3WE]

Not sure what you're on about, but DNA is certainly not RNA.

DNA…RNA…not THAT different.

[Gabriel]

DNA…RNA…not THAT different.

The only difference between DNA and RNA is deoxy. You are welcome.

[Evan]

DNA…RNA…not THAT different.

Cessna 172 & Airbus A320; not that different? And yet, the differences are everything.

The key difference between DNA and RNA is where they operate and how they replicate. DNA replicates in the cell nucleus. DNA vaccines penetrate the cell nucleus and carry a risk of altering the cell’s genetic material. This is a common fear people have expressed about mRNA vaccines. But mRNA cannot penetrate the cell nucleus and only operates in the cytoplasm where there is no risk of affecting the cell’s genetic material. Nor can RNA self-replicate. All mRNA can do is create the proteins needed to elicit antigens in the immune system.

So, we can stop talking about DNA here. The vaccines cannot access and do not interact with a person’s DNA.

[3WE]

So, we can stop talking about DNA here.

No.

They are nucleic acid chains that code for amino acids and chemical techniques to manipulate them may have common features.

Just like your airplanes.

It also represents an alignment of technology, public opinion, regulation, science, and politics.

As to yelling at Gabe, yes. Also, no one thinks about traditional mutation breeding…a rather crude technique vs “genetic engineering”

[3WE]

Of moderate ironing, two US-style cricket teams from flyover had to leave key players behind to play the Toronto team…

They weren’t vaccinated…

You’d think that winning professional sports contests would make vaccines worthwhile…weren’t there extremely strict recent requirements in other sports???

And then think of the optics of all of this…So much defiance of the science and government reccommendations.

[Evan]

No.

They are nucleic acid chains that code for amino acids and chemical techniques to manipulate them may have common features.

Well, that would stand to folk reason. Let us know when they've engineered messenger DNA.

[TeeVee]

is "modern vaccine science" any different that "modern drug science?" are all drugs proven to be safe before being unleashed on the masses of trusting people like you that have absolute faith in modern science and the decades of rigorous scientific study? really?

let's all count the number of drugs that proved to be far less than safe and had devastating consequences, like, um, er, DEATH. and i'm not talking about a few random cases of adverse reactions. rather enough so these "safe" drugs were pulled from the market--permanently.

we've been led to believe that the pfizer covid shot was safe and properly trialed. yet, the FDA wanted 55 years to turn over documents responsive to FOIA requests. 55 years. tell me that doesn't give you pause. tell me that doesn't at least make you wonder if the fda wasnt in bed with pfizer like the faa with boeing (think MAX). well shit, it makes me wonder.

[Gabriel]

the FDA wanted 55 years to turn over documents responsive to FOIA requests. 55 years

What was the justification? (I suppose you need a justification to ask for a 55-years period of non-disclosure to FOIA requests)