Second Turnback This Week Due to Unruly Pax

[TeeVee]

I think I’m the token biologist here, and the debate is interesting.

My $0.02: So, you have an Uber contagious, truly nasty chest cold. Some people die, most people have a bad cold or better. Unfortunately this was virulent and resulted in a bad body count. Masks do REDUCE spread, vaccines help, but for this bug, it still spreads.

Now politics and human nature: Total cluster. Experts screwed the pooch VERY EARLY, telling us masks wouldn’t work…oops.

And the subject of getting humans to do what they should…why is this any different…speed limits, health insurance, et al, ad nauseum.

Plus- science and those statistics that TeeVee understands…is there a small fraction of detrimental effects to vaccines for a disease that has a pretty good survival rate?

Is flu analogous? Tons of cool math games there. Likely more deadly WHEN you get it, less virulent, vaccines available, and totally optional, masking and self quarantines? Those would probably help.

The near future: Omicron spread a heck of a lot more, and it looks like most everyone is going to get it…it may now be endemic and with us forever. We (no italics) will be facing some interesting decisions regarding policies.

wishy washy but well said.

flu vaccine has proven to be not so effective, which is why they change it EVERY YEAR. christ! we havent beaten the common cold in 100's of years. we threw billions at HIV and still haven't beaten it. covid may be the next one. hopefully it doesnt kill us all.

then there is the not so subtle issue of $$$$$$$$$$. do any of you doubt the possibility that big pharma doesn't "want" a real vaccine, one that is effective for more than a handful of months?

i'm not a virologist or anything close to it. i don't understand on any level how viruses work, mutate, etc. but ya have to wonder why our older vaccines work (pretty much for a lifetime) and all the new stuff is very short-lived. could be that this virus is simply different. i have no clue. but i do wonder....

[Evan]

Now politics and human nature: Total cluster. Experts screwed the pooch VERY EARLY, telling us masks wouldn’t work…oops.

This.

This bit of revisionist history. I hear it way too much.

Experts didn't tell us that masks wouldn't work. Experts told us that we didn't have enough masks for both emergency medical staff and the general public, and that masks probably wouldn't be necessary if we social distanced because it was thought to spread via droplets that travelled no more than six feet. Experts told us to leave the masks to those who needed them most.

Then, over time, it became clear that the virus was aerosolizing. Game changer. Masks became essential. They still are.

Not to say that the pooch wasn't royally screwed in many other ways. Not having a stockpile of masks ready before the pandemic began, for example. Not immediately shutting down travel from affected regions, for example. Screening arrivals only for symptoms, with temperature guns, for a virus that was already known to spread before symptoms appeared. For example.

[3WE]

***
funny how hepa filters didnt prevent the spread of the common cold or flu prior to covid. every honest frequent flyer will admit to have had multiple colds per year. common factor? air travel. my friend the retired airline pilot attested to this. hepa filters or not, long aluminum tubes stuffed with 100's of people are petri dishes. not just the air. the seats, seatbelts, every single surface.

do you buy the bullshit about airlines disinfecting their aircraft? really? it's all bullshit. they did it half-heartedly back in 2020. now, it's business as usual. airplanes are just as dirty today as they were in 2019. and just as full of pathogens.***

In December, 2019, I rode an airplane (quite possibly my last airplane ride). The plane was an expletive cesspool- folks coughing and hacking…

A few days later- NASTY cough, chest congestion, fatigue, fever & body aches. (Taste OK). I sometimes wondered if I wasn’t one of those CoVid “before it was a thing” cases (although the taste thing would suggest non-sexy CoVid-number-way-less-than-19.)

I might argue with you that masks REDUCE crap…and that maybe masks-instead-of-a-lockdown has SOME merit in not harming the economy.

The other thing (you ain’t gonna like it), the airlines don’t like to get sued for having a known, unhealthy environment…(make no mistake, the OPTICS changed, not biology.

[Gabriel]

source?

Found it

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/united-airlines-flight-tel-aviv-passengers-refused-to-leave-business-class

[3WE]

then there is the not so subtle issue of $$$$$$$$$$. do any of you doubt the possibility that big pharma doesn't "want" a real vaccine, one that is effective for more than a handful of months?

Then we have Betty’s clothing and Joe’s Bar and Grill…

Versus Wally World and Amazon.

[3WE]

This.

This bit of revisionist history. I hear it way too much.

Disagree. I do not recall “sacrifice and conserve masks”. It was “viruses are sub-microscopic, masks won’t work”.

Then it was 6 week lockdown.

The consolation I’ll give you is that biology is imprecise. TeeVee busted me for being wishy-washy. The SOB is correct!

CoVid is virulent as hell, tiny as hell and there’s no shortage of transmission in spite of masking…It’s likely that it took time to get data that masks REDUCE, but do no eliminate transmission.

It’s pretty clear that often, the experts really didn’t know. Unfortunately, PUBLIC officials focused on “messaging and consistency and legalities.

And, yeah it got politicized. Trump said plenty of stupid shit…and was called xenophobic for trying to ban immigration from China. Biden’s said stuff too. The virus doesn’t care.

[TeeVee]

fact check on mask statements: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ci/7531267002/

so yeah, evan is going to say, well, they didnt understand the virus... bullshit. they always knew it was a respiratory (primarily) virus (severe acute RESPIRATORY syndrome) and the chief mode of transmission has always been respiratory.

let me close with this: for the first time in the history of the US (and many other nations), citizens do not have a right to return to the own bloody countries. justified? really? you couldve flow from a country with an active ebola outbreak and were allowed in with no test. no bullsh, ebola is without a doubt far more deadly than this relative lightweight virus.

hysteria fueled by money hungry media, intentional misinformation campaigns being waged by all sorts of actors, numbers that are skewed by (1) stupid, unwarranted government handouts and (2) greedy hospital administrators.

[Evan]

fact check on mask statements: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ci/7531267002/

so yeah, evan is going to say, well, they didnt understand the virus... bullshit. they always knew it was a respiratory (primarily) virus (severe acute RESPIRATORY syndrome) and the chief mode of transmission has always been respiratory.

There is a critical distinction between respiratory viruses that spread via droplets (coughs, sneezes, etc) and those that spread via aerosols (talking, breathing, etc). Most important to understand is that aerosols suspend for hours whereas droplet fall immediately to the ground. All respiratory viruses can spread via droplets, but only some can spread via aerosols.

[Evan]

Disagree. I do not recall “sacrifice and conserve masks”. It was “viruses are sub-microscopic, masks won’t work”.

Fox & Friends?

I never saw that nonsense in the legitimate press.

[Gabriel]

let me close with this: for the first time in the history of the US (and many other nations), citizens do not have a right to return to the own bloody countries. justified? really? you couldve flow from a country with an active ebola outbreak and were allowed in with no test. no bullsh, ebola is without a doubt far more deadly than this relative lightweight virus.

Seriously? Maye that's because...

Ebola is spread through direct contact with body fluids --blood, saliva, sweat, tears, mucus, vomit, feces, breast milk, urine, and semen -- of people infected with it. It is also spread by touching things that have been contaminated with these fluids.

• When an infection does occur in humans, it can be transmitted to others through:
  • Direct contact with the blood or secretions of an infected person
  • Exposure to objects, such as needles, that have been contaminated with infected secretions

Myth: I could catch Ebola by sitting next to someone who has it.

Reality: The CDC says the chances of this happening are very unlikely. The Ebola virus does not spread like the flu; it spreads through direct contact with the blood, secretions or other body fluids of ill people. It can also be spread by “indirect contact,” such as contact with needles contaminated with these fluids.

Myth: Ebola is the most dangerous disease that humans have ever encountered.

Reality: This isn’t true. While the mortality rate for the current outbreak is about 55 percent, the total number of people who have died in the outbreak is about 1,400 worldwide.

Source: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/ebol...ola-virus.html.

Do you understand that how dangerous a transmissible disease is, and your individual chances of dying of it, depends on the mortality rate but also on how contagious it is?

I can guarantee that you will not die of Ebola, even if the mortality rate was 99%, unless you get Ebola first. On the other extreme, 1% mortality rate out of of a significant proportion of the world's population that gets infected is still A LOT of people. COVID19 has killed, in these 2 years, more people than Ebola, AIDS, malaria and yellow fever COMBINED.

[3WE]

Fox & Friends?

I never saw that nonsense in the legitimate press.

Beautiful Mr. Black and White. Your use of absolute statements highlights your closed mind.

It’s not nonsense that viruses pass through masks. Source: Microbiology and 8th grade science and math. Something your “legitimate press” is known to suck at.

The coolest thing is how Omicron blew through half the population in 6 weeks IN SPITE OF a lot of decent protocols and MF masks on MF airplanes.

[Gabriel]

IN SPITE OF a lot of decent protocols.

I don't know in Flyover, but in El Paso Intl people goes to Walmart without masks, cinemas don't mandate masks and don't have capacity restrictions, the same with restaurants where even the servers don't use masks, schools cannot enforce masks even if they want to because of Abbot, and classrooms are packed as usually and even more now when a good fraction of teachers, including substitute teachers, are with COVID so they have to consolidate classes.

It's like is the death toll these weeks in the USA alone was not 4 Tenerifes per day!!! (14 Tenerifes per day worldwide)

The only consolation is that now COIVD is killing the antivaxers disproportionately much more than the sane population.

[Evan]

It’s not nonsense that viruses pass through masks. Source: Microbiology and 8th grade science and math.

I'm impressed that you learned all you needed to know about the subject in 8th grade.

Did they teach you that N94/KN94/FFP2 masks, when properly worn, capture at least 94% of Covid particles. Did they teach you in math class that, if only 6% reach you, your chances of getting ill are massively reduced? Did they teach you that a virus needs much better odds than that to become a pandemic?

It is black and white 3WE. Masks greatly prevent infections. Color it all you want, but a third grade education should tell you that them's the facts.

[3WE]

I don't know in Flyover, blah blah blah.

Omicron is much more infectious…

-The experts say so
-The progress greatly exceeds the prior peaks, with lots of records.

-CoVid original in early 2020 was March - July
-CoVid original fall outbreak, 2020- Months
-Vaccines!
-Delta came and went- and it seems vaccines were somewhat effective at stopping it.
-Omicron mere weeks and it’s set records and peaked. Vaccines rather ineffective at stopping it.

Yeah, each run was different in terms of masking and isolation and compliance and exposure, but it looks crazy virulent and they say it’s crazy virulent…

[3WE]

***94%***of Covid particles.

***Did they teach you in math class that***

***It is black and white***

Here’s some math for you: 6% of a billion is a big ass number.

Billions of particles, billions of people, and none of us pathogen free.

Reduce is a gray area.

Go back to your padded bubble, I’d hate for you to fall off your bicycle.