Second Turnback This Week Due to Unruly Pax

[3WE]

I’m talking to TeeVee, about the intersection of human nature and law.

Background: My home state resisted mask mandates while my home city had them…

I often thought of ‘rural’ business owners who might fear litigation for running a dangerous workplace (imagine a cashier facing lots of people)…so maybe it would be prudent to require masks.

Of course, business have the right to require masks. But here’s where human nature crashes and burns: It was both politicized and ass-hole ized with folks coming in cursing and threatening social media boycotts, and does the store owner want to hire bouncers and deal with the optics of that?

So if the state mandates masks, the store owner has some backing to protect his employees…

In spite of all the arguing above about what masks do or don’t do, I can see a very real lawsuit that Store manager Scrooge put profit over Mary Jane cashier…and someone like Evan will be citing those sources and Bobby and Gabe might be on the jury…

So, while I call bologna on mask worshippers, there’s that damn gray area again where they probably trap cough goobers and…reduce spread.

Thoughts?

[Evan]

It was both politicized

It was politicized by the right. Entirely by the right. Instead of doing anything progressive to defend the nation from the future, the Republican party survives by creating and amplifying divisive political non-issues. First they inspire a sense of outrage, then they feed it, then they feed off it. And now we have seriously dangerous situations on airplanes featuring intellectually vulnerable people who have been whipped into insanity by their pundit-implanted sense of righteousness. Maybe the FAA should revoke the right-wing media's airworthiness certificate, since the FCC apparently won't.

[3WE]

***Politicized ***Entirely by the right***

1. Extreme black and white thinking on display. Your inability to see it is amazing. Then again, equally amazing that someone has never ridden a bicycle.

2. What’s YOUR source? CNN?

”How dare the racist, xenophobic Trump ban travel from China?”

My bad, I didn’t ask for thoughtful discussion.

[BoeingBobby]

It was politicized by the right. Entirely by the right. Instead of doing anything progressive to defend the nation from the future, the Republican party survives by creating and amplifying divisive political non-issues. First they inspire a sense of outrage, then they feed it, then they feed off it. And now we have seriously dangerous situations on airplanes featuring intellectually vulnerable people who have been whipped into insanity by their pundit-implanted sense of righteousness. Maybe the FAA should revoke the right-wing media's airworthiness certificate, since the FCC apparently won't.

OMG Evan! I'm starting to really like you!!

[TeeVee]

And kill his uncle. Let's not forget that small detail.

DEAD EFFIN WRONG. if "his uncle" took his own protection seriously, "his uncle" would be wearing his OWN mask. if not, then sorry to say, his nephew is not his uncle's keeper. jesus! why is this so effin hard for you to grasp????

oh right! bicycle.....

[TeeVee]

It was politicized by the right. Entirely by the right. Instead of doing anything progressive to defend the nation from the future, the Republican party survives by creating and amplifying divisive political non-issues. First they inspire a sense of outrage, then they feed it, then they feed off it. And now we have seriously dangerous situations on airplanes featuring intellectually vulnerable people who have been whipped into insanity by their pundit-implanted sense of righteousness. Maybe the FAA should revoke the right-wing media's airworthiness certificate, since the FCC apparently won't.

yeah, while the left did nothing, none of them ever gave contradictory, confusing information, like fauci. instead of continuing to finger-point and blame, be realistic. Your god, Biden said he was gonna follow the science, yet amazingly, the "science" isn't being followed. rather, the money is being followed, as always.

maybe you wanna live in a nanny state, where some assholes in DC decide what is good and not good for you, where every single day, there are, in the oh so eloquent words of Dubya, "evil-doers" in our capital eroding our rights, all the while claiming to be working to save our lives. shitheads like Gavin Newsome, with his insane restrictions, that conveniently don't apply to him. or, fully vaccinated people dont need masks, except for when they are on airplanes, in airports, etc., yet democrap lawmakers get together for bill signing parties not wearing masks, and fail to explain to anyone, that they were all vaxed and tested negative before the event. what is that telling the "intellectually vulnerable" on the left? then , oh wait a minute, omicron laughs at vaccines, so everyone get your mask back on! hurry up or we will fine you and throw you in jail and ban you for life!

did you ever stop to think about the ridiculous mixed messages? nah, why would you.

here's a newsflash for ya: no person, party or law is gonna change anyone. i have friends that have categorically refused to wear masks since the outset. they are all still alive. i also know folks that wore masks and they are no longer with us--smart, educated people that took proper precautions. a doctor, 2 nurses and 3 paramedics i worked with. i know you are going to gimme the line of bullshit that goes something like, "well, yeah, of course! healthcare workers were/are at extreme risk..." never mind that, they all had proper PPE.

all i'm saying after all this bullsh back and forth is that i am and always will be against mandates. you wanna be protected? go right ahead ad protect yourself. those n95/kn95/94/93/?? will do a great job filtering your air, and that, my friend, is all you need. better yet, buy one of the devices i bought--quad hepa filtered. like living on your own planet!

p.s. what state do you live in? curious so i can point out that VERY LIKELY there is no mask mandate in every place. must make you pretty hot that you cannot demand everyone wear a mask at your local walmart.....

[Gabriel]

DEAD EFFIN WRONG. if "his uncle" took his own protection seriously, "his uncle" would be wearing his OWN mask. if not, then sorry to say, his nephew is not his uncle's keeper. jesus! why is this so effin hard for you to grasp????

oh right! bicycle.....

I intended to end my participation in this thread but I failed.

Do you understand that masks are a mitigation that is more or less effective but its effectiveness is somewhere between 0% and 100% (excluding both extremes)?
Do you understand that, as such, wearing a mask doesn't GUARANTEE that you are not going to incorporate the virus through respiration, but you are going to reduce the probability of that happening?
Do you understand that the mask works both ways? That it also doesn't eliminate but reduces the probability that an infected person will send enough viral load to another person for the other person to get infected?

If you understand that, you have to understand that wearing a mask reduces the chances that other people get infected (and maybe die) by your virus, and that is true whether the other person is or isn't wearing a mask.

When 2 persons, one infected and contagious and the other one not, are in close proximity one to the other, there is always a risk for contagion. The risk is there where you have 0, 1 or 2 masks between them. The risk is higher with 0 masks, smaller with only 1 (either) of them wearing a mask, and even smaller if both of them wear a mask. Never 100%, never 0%, but there is a gradient.

[3WE]

***Do you understand***

This thread perfectly illustrates TeeVees point.

No one is listening.

I think I read that TeeVee has a mask and wears it.

I think his healthy maskless friends and dead masked ones illustrate the not_100% aspect.

I think the way no one is listening is why TeeVee thinks mandates don’t work.

Nevertheless, my GMO-contaminated popcorn with butter and a dehydrated mixture of muriatic acid and sodium hydroxide is most enjoyable.

[Evan]

DEAD EFFIN WRONG. if "his uncle" took his own protection seriously, "his uncle" would be wearing his OWN mask. if not, then sorry to say, his nephew is not his uncle's keeper. jesus! why is this so effin hard for you to grasp????

Nice TeeVee. My Uncle was taking every precaution. He would have avoided the virus but then he suffered an injury and had to go in for urgent surgery involving full anesthesia. The hospitals were overwhelmed with Covid patients, many of them anti-maskers who had traded their cries of "nanny state" for cries of "please save me". In the hospitals, the virus aerosols were everywhere. It was inevitable that these people, through their selfish disregard for civic duty during a national emergency, would infect him. They killed him. I won't forget that.

[TeeVee]

Nice TeeVee. My Uncle was taking every precaution. He would have avoided the virus but then he suffered an injury and had to go in for urgent surgery involving full anesthesia. The hospitals were overwhelmed with Covid patients, many of them anti-maskers who had traded their cries of "nanny state" for cries of "please save me". In the hospitals, the virus aerosols were everywhere. It was inevitable that these people, through their selfish disregard for civic duty during a national emergency, would infect him. They killed him. I won't forget that.

ok, evan. you win.

(my condolences)

[Gabriel]

This thread perfectly illustrates TeeVees point.

No one is listening.

I think I read that TeeVee has a mask and wears it.

I think his healthy maskless friends and dead masked ones illustrate the not_100% aspect.

I think the way no one is listening is why TeeVee thinks mandates don’t work.

Nevertheless, my GMO-contaminated popcorn with butter and a dehydrated mixture of muriatic acid and sodium hydroxide is most enjoyable.

But all that has nothing to do with my comment in response to the TeeVee's comment that I quoted. I am not commenting on what TeeVee's does or doesn't do. I am commenting on his line of reasoning. Wearing a mask help save lives not just because the mask helps protect you from the infection, but it helps protect other's (whether they use a mask themselves or not) from your infection that you may not even know you have. And I am sorry if it sounds ugly, but not wearing a mask (in closed environments with more people nearby) not only helps you die of COVID, but also helps kill others with your COVID. Helps. No guarantee, no 0%, no 100%, in one way on in the other. Help. By how much? I don't know. But for sure it is not negligible.

[3WE]

many of them anti-maskers

They killed him.

So, one could infer that many of the patients were avid-maskers.

How do you know an avid-masker didn’t infect him?

Or should we blame the airlines who were flying masked, but infected people all over while nonessential businesses were locked down?

Yeah it sucks that bad respiratory infections sometimes kill people. My Dad couldn’t be with my mom as she was dying from a stroke, due to CoVid precautions. Do I blame the people enforcing the precautions?

[Evan]

Yeah it sucks that bad respiratory infections sometimes kill people. My Dad couldn’t be with my mom as she was dying from a stroke, due to CoVid precautions. Do I blame the people enforcing the precautions?

If everyone had followed masking directives from their public health authorities (once masking became a directive) the number of infected people in our hospitals would have been greatly reduced and the pandemic greatly shortened. This isn't so black and white 3WE. It isn't 'masks prevent all infection'. It's 'masks profoundly reduce infections'. And that alone would have been enough to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed, whereby they could have successfully separated Covid patients from those who were being treated for other reasons, such as strokes. It would have also greatly reduced the amount of virus aerosol present and thus the risk factor. I couldn't visit my own mother in the hospital last year for the same reason when she broke her hip. The hospital could no longer contain the Covid patients from the others due to the chaotic situation. Worse, a day after the surgery, they needed her hospital bed for Covid patients and had her moved to a satellite care facility with reduced capabilities in dealing with complications.

There's no way to spin it. Anti-maskers let this country down when it needed them to make a (rather mild) sacrifice and it cost countless lives, most from a generation that had made much greater sacrifices for the nation back when it was at its greatest.

[TeeVee]

laughably, the fines do not get paid to the airline. i, for one, will sue anyone that causes my flight to get cancelled or turned around as a result of their failure to comply with (ridiculous) mask requirements.

and THAT is what started all of this. nowhere did i say masks didnt work, although clearly, given the impossibly vague and inappropriate CDC "guidelines," which airlines aren't even truly following and is not based on real science, my comment was very on-point.

science says that cloth masks block maybe 28%, so forcing everyone to wear one leaves you with maybe, 56% protection. i'm positive that i fly and have flown more than evan and gabe since this crap started and from what i've seen first person is the vast majority of people flying are wearing crappy cloth masks or ill-fitting surgical masks (roughly 36%). nonetheless, evan and gabe are militant about a mask mandate, although if they were the only ones wearing, say, a kn95 mask, they would have better protection.

of course, we all know that one or both of them will come back and say, "yeah, but if i wear a kn95 and you wear a cloth mask, i'll be even MORE protected. to that i say, malarky.

[TeeVee]

So, one could infer that many of the patients were avid-maskers.

How do you know an avid-masker didn’t infect him?

Or should we blame the airlines who were flying masked, but infected people all over while nonessential businesses were locked down?

Yeah it sucks that bad respiratory infections sometimes kill people. My Dad couldn’t be with my mom as she was dying from a stroke, due to CoVid precautions. Do I blame the people enforcing the precautions?

and i guess we have to discount the tens of thousands of folks that were hospitalized for non-covid and survived...